discrepancy in vin/interior trim numbers - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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discrepancy in vin/interior trim numbers

Hi, I would appreciate any advice you might be able to offer. I purchased a 1969 mustang 428CJ in 1990 which was disassembled at the time. It still is. However, in investigating the paperwork I have encountered a problem with the last digit in the vin number indicating production number of the car. The last digit listed on both fender aprons, driver's door tag (original with original plate and rivets), title, and CA registration all ends in XX0. The interior trim code on the door plate is 3A (black interior). However, the vin number on the tag in the driver's window (also original) ends with XX1. While unaware of the discrepancy with the window tag number, I purchased a Marti report using the vin number ending in XX0. It returns an interior trim code as 3W (white interior). I do not know if the car was originally built with a white or black interior as there was no headliner, dash pad, etc in the car.

It seems to be two issues. Can I ignore the dash tag with vin ending XX1 and assume it should be XX0 as in all the other vins associated with the car (title, both fender aprons, door tag)? Second, can I assume the Marti report is correct and the car had a white interior? I prefer, of course, to put a white interior in the car but would like to be correct.

Thanks for any advice.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 05:18 PM
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On the 69 isn't the VIN riveted to the metal part of the dashpad? The dash pad is often in bad shape so one in good condition is swapped for the original. The person swapping the pad may not realize the "official" VIN is the one riveted to the pad metal.

I recommend you send the VIN that's on the pad to Marti for another (minimum) report and see what that VIN goes with!

Slim

It's incredible that the next sequential number would pop up on a junked car. This may have occurred on the assembly line and the car was registered using the door tag which was often done even though the tag says WARRANTY only.


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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Good suggestion to send for a Marti report using the XX1 number. The window tag is attached to the metal dash and not to the dash pad. I think because the car was missing the dash pad altogether. Thanks good suggestion.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 08:53 PM
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Something definately not correct. I would buy the marti for the other vin also. Usually his reports are pretty accurate but there is some data entry done that could be screwed up. But you have a major problem because the dash vin is the official vin and looks like it does not match the car as it differs from the fender aprons. A major problem with big dollar cars. One thing, I believe the dash vin was assigned first and the other data was stamped on the line. So possibly the guy on the line stamped the wrong vins on the fender aprons and door plate. If your do the marti and the x001 seems correct, this is what happened. Then when someone got it registered, they probably looked at the incorrect door vin some point in its life. Was the Marti for x00 a CJ also? Would be against averages to have back to back CJ but it could happen. The major problem is twofold in this case. 1) Your title is not legal as it need to match the dash vin. 2) re-sale value of the car may be hurt as it vins don't match and this is a problem with high dollar cars.

Current piles of rust 1965: New yorker***1968: GTO convert, Lemans convert Porche 911***1969: MustangGT convert, Mach1 S code Mach1, Mach1 CobraJet R code GTO convert, Firbird Convert 1970 Boss 302***1972: Charger***1999:f250 CNG truck***2011:nissan Altima ---> I need to get rid of some of this junk lol
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 01:18 AM Thread Starter
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I have purchased a Marti report for vin XX1. Will get back later. The XX0 Marti is for a 428cj.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 10:30 AM
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Wasn't questioning the accuracy of Marti report! It will be interesting what the other VIN matches up to.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by slim View Post
Wasn't questioning the accuracy of Marti report! It will be interesting what the other VIN matches up to.
I know you were not. I was not sure if the original poster knew how accurate the reports are and how there are mistakes made on data entry at factory. His problem is complicated by existence of 2 vins on his car. 3stangs2fordtrucks, vins can be moved from one car to another and original rivits do exist. At one point, someone even made "replacement" vin tags. Door tags are still being made. I forgot to ask, does your car have a buck tag? Also, I just confirmed looking at one of my cars and the vin is not attached to the pad metal, it is attached to the dash metal underneath it. I do think the other marti may clear up what happened.

Current piles of rust 1965: New yorker***1968: GTO convert, Lemans convert Porche 911***1969: MustangGT convert, Mach1 S code Mach1, Mach1 CobraJet R code GTO convert, Firbird Convert 1970 Boss 302***1972: Charger***1999:f250 CNG truck***2011:nissan Altima ---> I need to get rid of some of this junk lol
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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discrepancy in vin/interior trim numbers

Hi again, after nearly one week I have the second Marti report. I hope you guys are still seeing this because I really do need advice. Let me sum up what I know (facts), believe, and need advice.
As initially reported I own a 1969 mustang with different vin numbers on the windshield dash and on the fender aprons/door tag. The vin numbers are identical in all respects except the windowshield dash tag ends in XX1 while the two fender aprons and door tag ends in XX0. The vin is 9R02Rxxxxx1 or 9R02Rxxxxx0. I had a Marti report of XX0 vin and now have one for XX1 vin. Both vins exist and both are for 1969 mustangs (9), assembled at San Jose(R), Mustang 2-door SportsRoof (02) and with 428-4V Cobra Jet Ram Air V-8 Engine (R). Looking at both Marti reports both were scheduled for build at the same date, had a four-speed close ratio manual transmission and were in fact built on the same day. The two vins however had different exterior and interior paint codes. More importantly, one was ordered with 4.30 Traction-Lok Rear Axle and the other with 3.50 Traction-Lok Axle. Therefore the 4.30 Traction-Lok car came with a Super Cobra Jet Engine (standard with cars with 4.30 gears and so indicated on the Marti report) while the 3.50 car came with just a Cobra Jet Engine. It is worth noting that both a R-code Cobra Jets so it does not appear someone was trying to alter the vins to make a more desirable car than was present from the factory. It appears to be an error on the vin application.

Finally, which researching this problem and as stated in this thread I believe the official vin is the one in the windshield tag. This means that although my car has three vins (2 fenders/door tag) that end in XX0 the correct one is the window tag (XX1). In addition I also found that the vin number on the build sheet is the Holy Grail for the car. When I purchased my car in 1993 someone told me to look for the build sheets that might be found in the floor behind the driver's seat. My car appeared to have original carpet and I did find the build sheets. I thought this was cool but not so important. They were folded and had aged badly. They are extremely fragile and are very dark. I placed each in plastic zip lock bags and stored with other information with the car. Having read that they are the ultimate authority. I examined my build sheets and on both if you put a light behind them and use a magnifying glass you can read the intact complete vin number and on both it is 9R02Rxxxxx1 which matches the window tag.

So I believe the correct vin number for my car is 9R02Rxxxxx1. This is in spite of three of the four vins on the car ending in 0.

I would appreciate anyones opinion to see if I am correct or not. If so, anyone have an ideal how I go about getting my car titled/registered under the XX1 vin instead of the XX0 as is now the case. I know the police (State) can verify vins but unless the officer understands this email I am afraid he/she will accept that 3 of one number outweights one of another number.

Thanks for you help. What a mess.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 11:03 PM
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Let's simplify the situation:

Your 69 Title VIN ends in XX0. Fender apron VIN XX0, door tag XX0.

Dash VIN ends in XX1, build sheet XX1

Door tag lists exterior color, interior trim and rear axle.

You have XX0 and XX1 Marti reports. If I read everything correctly the XX1 Marti report fits your 69 exactly. Right?

Have I summarized this correctly?


The Dash VIN and build sheet are gospel. Is the door tag correct in all but the XX0 ? Does everything but the "Warranty" number match the build sheet?
IMO you have the true XX1 car. Who knows if the real XX0 car still or ever did exist. You can order a door tag for XX1 but there's still the apron stamped XX0 VIN and the XX0 title.

I'm wondering what was the sequence of events on the San Jose assembly line. The build sheet come from the order. Remember back then there was very
little computer tracking. It's possible the XX! dash VIN and XX0 door tag could have been switched. The door tag would have had the number switched and then the tag switched. The door tag is hardest to explain IF it matches your car. If it doesn't match your car it's easier to explain!

After confirming the exact situation we can discuss a plan!


You have a fantastic/very desirable car. Seems worthwhile to get the records and Title straightened ouit!


My '64 1/2 vert. Ordered May '64. D code 4 speed, handling package, caspian blue, accent group, Ford blue manual top.

'68 vert. driver. Owned since Apr '78. C code AT, AC, PS, P disc B, PT lime gold, standard black interior and top. NOS RF fender and left quarter.New top and folding glass.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 11:24 PM
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A can of worms that smells fishy afterwards and the DMV will stamp their own VIN or worse.

I can see such cars getting grouped like that on the line but to have lived in the same area until the other car needed a dash?
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3stangs2fordtrucks View Post

anyone have an ideal how I go about getting my car titled/registered under the XX1 vin
OK, you bought the car in 1990 and never got it titled in your name in your state?

Did you get a title from the person you bought it from?

If yes, what's the VIN on that title?
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3stangs2fordtrucks View Post
Hi again, after nearly one week I have the second Marti report. I hope you guys are still seeing this because I really do need advice. Let me sum up what I know (facts), believe, and need advice.....
In addition I also found that the vin number on the build sheet is the Holy Grail for the car.......
So I believe the correct vin number for my car is 9R02Rxxxxx1. This is in spite of three of the four vins on the car ending in 0.
I would appreciate anyones opinion to see if I am correct or not. If so, anyone have an ideal how I go about getting my car titled/registered under the XX1 vin instead of the XX0 as is now the case. I know the police (State) can verify vins but unless the officer understands this email I am afraid he/she will accept that 3 of one number outweights one of another number.
Thanks for you help. What a mess.
We are still here. I was waiting to see the outcome. Ok, as far as State and feds, you are correct the only legal vin is the on the dash, So this has to be the titled/registered vin. If you were pulled over, then you may have difficulties. It confirms what I thought possible on post 4. Problems with taking it to the state is that they will assign a vin to the car. Kinda sucks. Problem most likely occurred on the line. Fender apron vins are a true vin but are not the legal vin. They are used to match official vin with major car parts also including the trans and engine. Lastly, build sheet and door tags don't count for anything as they are very movable. They can only help you explain what happened. One notice is that most stated will assign a vin that is not a mustang vin. I had read somewhere that one of the states will assign the correct number if prove what is correct. It depends on your state. As I understand it is titled under the wrong vin number right now. This really is problematic because I think most states will re-vin that because of issues with the body vin. I might try my luck and go to DMV and say it was titled wrong and see what it takes to title the car with right vin. Ask questions there and see how much an issue it would be. I would not go into having a bunch of vins, just say last digit is wrong and see what they say it takes to change it. Too bad this happened on a CJ car, as re-sale will be hurt some by it because people don't like to hear about screwup on the line no matter how much proof you have. Good Luck. Keep us informed.

Current piles of rust 1965: New yorker***1968: GTO convert, Lemans convert Porche 911***1969: MustangGT convert, Mach1 S code Mach1, Mach1 CobraJet R code GTO convert, Firbird Convert 1970 Boss 302***1972: Charger***1999:f250 CNG truck***2011:nissan Altima ---> I need to get rid of some of this junk lol
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 10:14 AM
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3Stangs2fordtrucks: So in 1990 you bought what I call a basket case.Seller provided you with California title...right? Are you in a different State? Your profile has precious little info.

So you never have attmpted to register it right? Makes sense because in effect it's a collection of parts.So you have the body with partial interior. Has the body been repainted at any time, if so was the whole body stripped/blasted before painting i.e. can you find area with the paint sprayed on assembly. Is that paint as
shown on either Marti report? I'm talking paint somewhere on the body shell not hood, trunk lid, front fenders or doors.We're doing detective work to determine which car you actually have.

It would be very helpful if you posted the XX0 and the XX1 Marti reports.

Let's forget affect on value of the car when you sell it. You have a potentially high value car. Next buyer looking at an assembled car is likely to notice the Title doesn't match the title, that is if you register it under the current XX0 and therefore pass entirely. A DMV assigned VIN may decrease value but at least a potential buyer would have confidence that it has a DMV recognised title!

If the body color (original factory sprayed) matches Marti report XX1 I'm betting your Stang is the true XX1 car.


My '64 1/2 vert. Ordered May '64. D code 4 speed, handling package, caspian blue, accent group, Ford blue manual top.

'68 vert. driver. Owned since Apr '78. C code AT, AC, PS, P disc B, PT lime gold, standard black interior and top. NOS RF fender and left quarter.New top and folding glass.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I purchased the car with a bill of sale only. I then titled and registered it in CA using the XX0 vin. I did not notice that the dash vin was XX1. It has been registered non-operational for 15 years. To answer some of your questions.The door tag does not exactly match either XX1 or XX0 vin. The color code is P5 (winter blue, which the car was painted) and the rear axle code is S (3.50) both consistent with the XX0 vin but the trim code is 3A (black) consistent with the XX1 vin. The car actually had 4.30 gears (XX1 vin) in it when I got it but I thought it had been set up for drag racing and switched them to what I thought was the correct 3.50 gears.

I will post the Marti reports if it would help and if I can figure out how to do so.

It seems my best bet would be to replace the door tag with the legal XX1 vin information and then plead the case with DMV that the fender vins had been incorrectly stamped with the XX0 number at the factory and all I want is to re-register to match the legal vin XX1. Do you think this would work?
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 01:08 PM
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Re registering with the xx1 vin would be the most correct but some states will want to inspect the apron vins and you may have a problem there. A few things, 1) at one point someone was making dash vin tags (illegal for the most part) and this is why people with high dollar mustangs are really particular about the vins on these cars. 2) Many mustangs have wrong door tag on them. Marti makes these tags but are not really looked as good or bad if correct. 3) If you had popo looking closely at your car, they may have some concerns that the fender vins don't match the dash vin. But they are covered up so probably not an issue. But if you switch the title, make sure you document everything including old title and hidden numbers. When people were making the vin plates, a shady company was converting lower line mustangs into cobrajets and ect. They got busted and shut down but it raised red flag on many high dollar mustangs.

Current piles of rust 1965: New yorker***1968: GTO convert, Lemans convert Porche 911***1969: MustangGT convert, Mach1 S code Mach1, Mach1 CobraJet R code GTO convert, Firbird Convert 1970 Boss 302***1972: Charger***1999:f250 CNG truck***2011:nissan Altima ---> I need to get rid of some of this junk lol
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