Radiator Differences - Vintage Mustang Forums

 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2008, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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What is the difference between a standard cooling radiator and an extra cooling radiator? Specifically looking for a radiator for a 1970 351C non-AC car with a 3.25 traction lock (20" radiator). My parts book (1975 issue) lists the same part number, same length, same width, and same core thickness for both the standard cooling and the extra cooling.

My Project: 1970 Mustang Convertible (currently stashed at my parent's house 1-1/2 hours away...ssssllllllooooooowwwwww progress)
Garage with my FX4 and 1970 Mach I



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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 11:12 PM
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Believe there was a difference in thickness (number of rows)at least . Please understand that the parts books do not show what was original just what they were carrying in stock to sell to someone needing one.

This is one problem with relying on the later books as a reference - not that they should be ignored... just used as part of the picture IMHO

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 08:05 AM
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The number of convoluted cooling fins per square inch, for example a extra cooling radiator could have the same number of rows but a will have more fins per square inch to help dissipate heat.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks RedLine!

Jeff - I always through the difference between a standard/extra cooling radiator and an AC radiator is the number of rows. All standard/extra cooling radiators are two rows, and all AC radiators are three rows. Is this not correct?

I have been looking for a 1970 parts book for a year with no success. If you run across one, pick it up and I will pay you for it!

My Project: 1970 Mustang Convertible (currently stashed at my parent's house 1-1/2 hours away...ssssllllllooooooowwwwww progress)
Garage with my FX4 and 1970 Mach I



"That guy is so detailed that he would rebuild the engine to change the oil."
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruise
Jeff - I always through the difference between a standard/extra cooling radiator and an AC radiator is the number of rows. All standard/extra cooling radiators are two rows, and all AC radiators are three rows. Is this not correct?

Believe that is correct for this application.

Older MPC are hard to find and when you do they are often a mix of versions from a range of time rather than an exact, complete version

Got one last year that is mostly a late 68 version with a few mid 69 sections

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 09:59 PM
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This is confusing to me.
Here's my understanding: Standard cooling is what was standard on the car, extra cooling was the "extra cooling" option ($13.) Seems simple enough. Extra cooling was a mandatory option for a/c cars.
What I think is confusing is the placement of the "x" in the '75 MPC for 351(4/B)-w/o 3.5/1 axle ratio (non-a/c) entry, which I'm guessing is a typo.
For 351-4V cars, with no a/c, and 3.25 on down rear end ratios, you should have received the 20" radiator, c9ZZ-8005-E. The x shows this as the extra cooling option, but the '75 edition DOES NOT list a "standard cooling" radiator
The '75 MPC also lists for 351 (2/V, 4/V) with the extra cooling package the D0ZZ-8005-D radiator, which is the 24" radiator. This is also the a/c radiator, automatically added with the select-aire option (A/C.) With 351 (4/B) with 3.5/1 axle ratio, the D0ZZ-8005-D radiator (the same as the a/c radiator) is marked as the standard and optional "extra cooling" radiator (I'm guessing extra cooling was an included/mandatory option with the 3.50 ratio.)(Note that the '75 MPC lists the 24" radiator for both the standard cooling and extra cooling on the Boss 302, extra cooling was an "included option.")
Thus, there was no "standard" radiator for the 351 4/V cars that didn't have 3.50:1 ratios according to the MPC, which makes no sense.
My understanding has always been that the 20" radiator (C9ZZ-E) should be the standard radiator, and the 24" (D0ZZ-D) should be the radiator you received for paying your extra $13. If the extra fin count was the difference, Ford would have had to stock an additional radiator on the production line for just 351 4V cars with 3.25 on down rear axle ratios, which I don't think is likely.
Unfortunately, there is no reprint of the '70 engine assembly manual, so the easy cross-reference isn't there.
As Jeff said, the MPC's aren't exact, my guess is that the first x is one column off in the '75 MPC, otherwise, there is be no listing for cars with standard cooling, and two listings (one a 20", one a 24") for the extra cooling package.

Carl

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'70 M-Code Vert w/ Shaker
'85 1C SVO
'11 Shelby GT-500
'02 Excursion (7.3l)
'04 Expedition
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 10:17 PM
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For grins and giggles, I cross checked the radiator mounts and fan shroud as well for the 20" versus 24" difference. 20" radiators bolted to the radiator support, 24" radiators used the upper and lower saddles. The MPC lists the saddles for A/C and X/C cars with 351's. The MPC also lists the 24" shroud for F-X/C 351 and F-A/C 351 cars, both of which are consistent with the 20" and 24" distinction. My understanding remains that standard cooling cars received the 20" radiator, and the extra cooling cars received the 24" radiator.
To answer the original post, this would mean that the 20" radiator was used as the standard radiator (I have one original in the basement, marked C9ZZ-E), and the 24" radiator was the extra cooling radiator.

Carl

'70 Boss 302
'70 M-Code Vert w/ Shaker
'85 1C SVO
'11 Shelby GT-500
'02 Excursion (7.3l)
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 10:40 PM
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Not sure where my head was at but yes like the earlier years the standard on the 302 & 351 was the narrow side mount radiator and the extra cooling and AC was the saddle mount. There way have also been differences in the thickness dependent on engine size.

Here is a couple (of course have a ton more) pictures. This collection just taken from 70 Dearborn built cars


F code without AC




F code with AC



H code with AC OK one NJ car



M code without AC



M code with AC

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 10:45 PM
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I'm not sure I'd rely on that H code with A/C picture. It has a 20" radiator, which would at best be a fluke.
Also, the straps for the radiator appear wrong, and mount wrong, I'd guess an A/C added car.

Carl

'70 Boss 302
'70 M-Code Vert w/ Shaker
'85 1C SVO
'11 Shelby GT-500
'02 Excursion (7.3l)
'04 Expedition
'07 Speed6
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 11:25 PM
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Correct and good eye Carl..... picture changed to a better example

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 07:16 AM
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That's a good one, Jeff, and one you don't see to often. A '70 351W with a shaker.
Every time I look at a '70 with an H-Code Windsor, I do a double take (hey, that's the wrong snorkel and air cleaner!), then have to say to my self, not all H-Codes received the mighty 351C. :^)

Carl

'70 Boss 302
'70 M-Code Vert w/ Shaker
'85 1C SVO
'11 Shelby GT-500
'02 Excursion (7.3l)
'04 Expedition
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Wow! I was camping over the weekend, and didn't get a chance to check the site before I left. Thanks for the clarifications!

Carl - You want to get rid of the C9ZZ-E?

My Project: 1970 Mustang Convertible (currently stashed at my parent's house 1-1/2 hours away...ssssllllllooooooowwwwww progress)
Garage with my FX4 and 1970 Mach I



"That guy is so detailed that he would rebuild the engine to change the oil."
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 05:50 AM
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good job guys, thanks for the great amount of useful information!
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