Retain or restore.....that is the question.

[66RavenGTCoupe]

Hi guys,
I have a dilemma that I have been battling with for some time now so I figured that I would put it out there and ask you concours guys for some opinions as I feel you understand the value and passion of original against restoration.
You see I have a Factory Raven 1966 GT Coupe that is pretty much a survivor. 69,000 original miles, all original black pony interior, correct bulid and cast date engine, all original panels with no filler or rust for that matter and all other parts are numbers matching/FOMOCO/Autolite.
The thing is that the car has been repainted about 10 to 15 years ago and is in need of a freshen up. (Small dings, chips that have been touched up, crows feet, thining, swirls, scratches.) The car actually has a great shine and looks a million bucks from 5 feet away. Opinion 1: Should I do it or would it be better to leave it. Would it decrease the value or patina of the car?
Same goes for the engine. The A code has never been opened and is quite tired (I was told by my mechanic that she is down frm the 225hp to about 190hp) and she is blowing smoke a little too. Opinion 2: should I rebuild and repaint the engine?
Your honest opinions here would be most welcome. I would hate to possibly spoil the old girl by fixing her if you know what I mean.
Regards,
Daniel.
[IMG][/IMG]

[tx65coupe]

Personally, I would spruce her up.

[ivygreen65]

Daniel,

I would restore it. If it was a 15,000 mile car, I would suggest that you think about keeping it original. But, with 69,000 miles, it's time for a restoration. I think you would get much more enjoyment out of it. I have a 43,000 mile convertible that I'm restoring and it's very tired for that number of miles. All the original pieces are there, but they all need need restoring/refreshing.

[Dudley]

I agree with the others, you can keep it as original as possible, but it sounds like you have to have some work done no matter what. Good luck on your decision and the work you need to do. dudley

[69mach351W]

I would definitely rebuild the engine and If you want to keep the original look,repaint the engine and used as many of the original parts as you can.

Also, painting the Mustang would also be a plus. You can paint it for a daily driver or concours show quality. Either way, is a win win situation for you.

My 69 Mach1 on my signature was repainted in '08, and the original engine with all original attaching parts was rebuilt in '09. I show my 69 in the concours "driven" class in the MCA, and I'm only 2 points away from retiring my Mach1 into the conservator class.

If you need any other info, I'm a certified Judge in the MCA, feel free to ask and Good luck with your project

[slim]

Laurie should chime in. She also is MCA certified judge and her Murphey (68 Coupe) is a conours prize winner. She has owned it since new...picked it up at the Dearborn plant...if I got it right her dad bought it, she was a little kid.

She as I recall has said hear that the car has been "refreshed" exactly as new.
You stated your car has been repainted (the correct color) so the finish is not original so what could be the harm in "refreshing" the finish?

I see no connection between miles and restoration. Some cars are trashed by 20,000 some are like new at 70,000. I'm referring to vintage cars. Todays vehicles can be like new at 150,000 miles or trashed by 20,000!! JMO.


Slim

[69mach351W]

Originally Posted by slim

You stated your car has been repainted (the correct color) so the finish is not original so what could be the harm in "refreshing" the finish?
Slim

The paint does not have to be the "original paint" in either the concours trailered or concours driven classes.

Only the Thoroughbred and unrestored MCA classes has to retain a certain percentage(%) of the original paint.

There is no harm in 66ravenGTcoupe "refreshing" the exterior paint.

See the MCA rules for all classes. You don't have to be a member to view the judging rules for each class......Hope this helps.

[66RavenGTCoupe]

Hey Guys,
Thank you all so much for your tips and opinions. You don't know what a load off it is to know that I am not ruining such a beautiful car. Now I can go into this project guilt free and know that I am doing the right thing by "refreshing" her paint and engine and by retaining the original parts. I'll keep you posted with photo's along the journey as in a few months (the Australian winter) I will take out the block and C4 for rebuild and clean up the engine bay. Two questions though. Can any of you post some 1966 engine bay photos as a guide and does any one know the correct colour and code of the Thompson power steering pump (Pump built July 11th 1966 ).
P.S. I have added some photos to my original post if anyone is interested.
Thanks to all again,
Daniel.

[ivygreen65]

Daniel,

Based on the pictures that you've added, it looks like someone has already taken a swing at restoring your engine bay, based on the fact that your 289 is painted in a 260 light blue.

Here is a picture of Bob Perkins' 56 original mile 289.

Your 289 should look like this, with a little variation in decals based on where and when yours was manufactured.

It looks like you have a lot or original parts on yours that are typically changed out (i.e. radiator, power steering pump, vacuum advance, etc.). The key, if you want to restore yours to original condition, is to restore your original parts and not stick a lot of reproduction parts on it.


My convertible started as this:



and is now this





I spent a lot of time finding correct, date-coded parts and restored them to the original finish. You will find that it is not an easy project, but a very rewarding one when you complete it.

[66RavenGTCoupe]

Hey ivygreen65,
Thanks for that pic. It's a great start. I will add it to my file. Was hoping for some side shots and close ups too if anyone can help.
Your '65 is just immaculate. That engine bay is to die for. Really beautiful. Interior is gorgeous and paint is awesome. I'm sure that you are proud as punch when you drive her around and show her off. How can you tell that the radiator is original? Curious to know as I was not sure myself!
Dan.

[ivygreen65]

Originally Posted by 66RavenGTCoupe

How can you tell that the radiator is original? Curious to know as I was not sure myself!
Dan.

The shape of the top tank is typical of Dearborn and Metuchen built 65/66 cars. If you look on the driver's side attaching flange (where it bolts to the radiator support), you should find the part number stamped. The last 3 digits will be the date code.

[slim]

Originally Posted by 69mach351W

The paint does not have to be the "original paint" in either the concours trailered or concours driven classes.

Only the Thoroughbred and unrestored MCA classes has to retain a certain percentage(%) of the original paint.

There is no harm in 66ravenGTcoupe "refreshing" the exterior paint.

See the MCA rules for all classes. You don't have to be a member to view the judging rules for each class......Hope this helps.

No question! Notice I used Laurie's Murphey as an axample. Some odd balls like me prefer the original, meaning the factory applied finish wherever it's decent!


Slim

[Laurie_S]

Sounds like it's time for an engine rebuild and a repaint. Go of it, it will not reduce the value and, most likely, will increase it nicely. Post pictures of what you do!

[66RavenGTCoupe]

Originally Posted by Laurie_S

Sounds like its time for an engine rebuild and a repaint. Go of it, it will not reduce the value and, most likely, will increase it nicely. Post pictures of what you do!

I will definitely post pics for you guys. It's the least that I can do!

Thanks again.

Dan.

P.S: Any luck with the paint colour name/code for my ps pump anyone?

[ivygreen65]

Dan,

PM Bryancobb on this forum. I know he has accumulated a lot of information regarding the Ford/Thompson and TRW pumps and he can answer all your questions in that regard. I know the Thompson pumps are teal, but I believe has the correct paint code and pictures of NOS examples.