Do cars last longer? - Vintage Mustang Forums

 7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 23,422
Do cars last longer?

Old timer point of view/perception.

Surprise, not gonna say they don't make 'em like they used to!

When I was 16 my dream cars were 56 Ford and Chev convertibles. "By the time they're 5 years old they'll probably be affordable!"

Been in the rust belt all my life. By 61 or 62 the 56s that spent their life (5 year life!!) here were badly rusted. They typically had 50,000 miles and probably good for another 30,000 before engine overhaul, sometime they would make 100,000 but by then the interior would need seat covers.

I found a gorgeous 56 low mileage vert in 62, by 66 it was becoming a rust bucket and the front seat was badly in need of complete reupholstering. By then it had 100,000 and the engine was getting tired.

Fast forward to 2016. Our 2002 Escape at 15 years old, 185,000 miles looks and runs like new. Our 1997 Towne and Country has one rusted area at the bottom of the right rear sliding door. Run like new, interior is near perfect. 180,000 miles.

Some around here call vintage Mustangs Rustangs. Hey by 1975 most (all brands) that were 10 years old were badly rusted out. Millions of vintage Mustangs were made and a lot are still around. Chances are good many have been "restored" 2 or 3 times.

Today 100,000 on a 2007 is considered a low mileage original. 200,000 , 15 year life is normal. Bought a new car once, my 64 1/2 Mustang. My idea of a new car is less than 10 so I'm used to tracking used cars.


My '64 1/2 vert. Ordered May '64. D code 4 speed, handling package, caspian blue, accent group, Ford blue manual top.

'68 vert. driver. Owned since Apr '78. C code AT, AC, PS, P disc B, PT lime gold, standard black interior and top. NOS RF fender and left quarter.New top and folding glass.

Last edited by slim; 03-02-2017 at 01:08 PM.
slim is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 02:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 788
I think it's a combination of they're made better and use better parts.

Aluminum doesn't rust and a lot more of your suspension components are aluminum.

Rust protection or sealants of some type tend to be on most cars from the factory today...used to be a big dealer upsell item that a lot of people skipped.

A lot of body panels and bumpers are made of plastic or other composites and don't rust.

A lot of engines today don't need their first real tune up until 100k miles. We recently sold back a VW TDI Jetta with 115k miles on it...never had to change the plugs or do any type of real tune-up on it. Had to replace the A/C system once and do a transmission flush, but other than, it was pretty much just doing oil changes..

But the cost to repair simple fender benders are a lot more today than they used to be...so the longer life comes at a cost.

Dan
Chapel Hill, NC
***PM me if you're close by and can lend a hand with my 65 Fastback project***
Dan Babb is online now  
post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 02:24 PM
Senior Member
 
gt350sr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 3,082
Garage
Last longer? Hell no! The newer cars obviously get more miles racked up than the older ones, but they're disposable pop cans for the most part. They rust away or fall apart after 10 years and get scrapped for the most part. Back in the day you'd see cars all the time with mis-matched fenders, doors, hoods, etc. People had wrecked them, then went and got junkyard parts to keep going and looking 'decent' enough to drive. Now a day they're not typically worth spending the money to repair damaged parts- they just get driven until the wheels fall off. When was the last time you saw a mid 2000's F150 with cab corners? Or an Avalanche, or Chebby truck with rockers? How about a Dodge truck with fenders?? A Ford Taurus with ANYTHING still left behind the rocker plasctic is a miracle! Sure the older ones rusted too, but not nearly as fast or as bad as the new stuff does. So last longer you ask.... nope.

Buckle up- I wanna try something!!
gt350sr is offline  
 
post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 02:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ohio...between Toledo and Cleveland
Posts: 2,034
Send a message via AIM to 65fstbk
I believe in the short term (20-25 years) cars will run and look much better than they did in the 60's and 70's...even the 80's...the rust protection is that much better, and the technology has advanced so that the car adjusts itself based on the feed back from sensors..and tolerances are so tight, that when it's working, it works great!...with that said... I really doubt that in 50 years there will not even be a fraction of today's cars on the road, compared to the vintage/antique that we have today.



.
.
The fastback is still quite a project..so...I now have the '51 "shoebox" to drive until the mustang is done...its next!

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/362544/1
http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/51custom/?start=0
65fstbk is offline  
post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 03:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Target's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: California
Posts: 1,226
Garage
Except for maybe Volvos or the few other brands that started to galvanize their bodies/frames, I doubt the life expectancy of a car that sees salt has increased by more than a 5 years. I spent a couple weeks in Boston around a year ago and I could count the number of cars on one hand made before 2005.

1967 Mustang 302 - Build Thread
1976 Triumph Bonneville

From Los Angeles. Going to college in Santa Cruz, California.
Target is online now  
post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 04:11 PM
Senior Member
 
silverblueBP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Ames, Iowa
Posts: 6,686
I remember when 100k miles was a huge milestone. Now, 200k is the norm. My 2000 F250 still has all its sheetmetal with minimal surface rust on the frame. At 160k it's still going strong. The last two DD's had well over 100k on them and were fine.

-Mark-

1966 Mustang 2+2

"Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a race car. And I've never been sad in a race car!"

silverblueBP is online now  
post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 04:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt350sr View Post
Last longer? Hell no! The newer cars obviously get more miles racked up than the older ones, but they're disposable pop cans for the most part. They rust away or fall apart after 10 years and get scrapped for the most part. Back in the day you'd see cars all the time with mis-matched fenders, doors, hoods, etc. People had wrecked them, then went and got junkyard parts to keep going and looking 'decent' enough to drive. Now a day they're not typically worth spending the money to repair damaged parts- they just get driven until the wheels fall off. When was the last time you saw a mid 2000's F150 with cab corners? Or an Avalanche, or Chebby truck with rockers? How about a Dodge truck with fenders?? A Ford Taurus with ANYTHING still left behind the rocker plasctic is a miracle! Sure the older ones rusted too, but not nearly as fast or as bad as the new stuff does. So last longer you ask.... nope.
I agree, depends on the "car". My fairly pampered 2000 K2500 has lots of rust and rotted door seams. Modern engines do seem to last longer though.
gt350sr likes this.

'65 A-code coupe, T-10 4-speed, 8" 3.25 limited slip
stephen_wilson is offline  
post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 04:24 PM
Senior Member
 
sixseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,277
Garage
I know the lubrication is better today than it was in the 60's. Does that explain why a ball joint lubed every couple thousand miles in a 65 would have to be replaced in 70k miles where a ball joint today is replaced in 150K miles? Not sure slim.

Another phenomena I know of is that in the 60's and 70's when I was a kid we had snow every year in VT, It snowed by Christmas and didn't melt until late March or April. That also meant tons of fender killing road salt. The 80's and 90's saw considerably less snow, some years the snow melted between storms. That meant less salt.

1967 Mustang convertible
1941 Ford Pickup
1940 Buick Roadmaster convertible coupe
sixseven is offline  
post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 04:25 PM
Senior Member
 
gt350sr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 3,082
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen_wilson View Post
I agree, depends on the "car". My fairly pampered 2000 K2500 has lots of rust and rotted door seams. Modern engines do seem to last longer though.
I'll give you that the engines seem to last longer... assuming the body holds together long enough to keep it in place!

Buckle up- I wanna try something!!
gt350sr is offline  
post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 05:19 PM
Senior Member
 
65 Pony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 3,168
Also, what is the definition of "lasts longer"?

Mileage? Age?

If it's straight up mileage new cars have the old ones straight up beat. From what I've learned from the internet and my older, wiser, family members is that a flat tappet cam V8 "only" lasted 100-120K before it was tired, worn out, and needed a rebuilt. The straight 6's were the motors that *could* hit 150K+ if taken care of.

Maintenance? Almost a laugh when compared. You can literally buy a brand new car off a lot, change the oil once a year, the brakes maybe once, and a set or two of tires (depending on what quality you buy) and easily hit 100K with zero issues. On a 60's car you would have changed the plugs/wires/points a few times, lubed everything under the car once/year, changed the oil 3-4 times per year... etc. This is one of the main reasons we have generation of teens and young-ish adults (I'd say around 35-40) that don't care or don't know anything about cars... it's because they don't have to.

I grew up in NY, I know all cars rust eventually no matter what, but here in the southeast there are a TON of 80's+ cars with absolutely zero rust anywhere on them. Want a fox or 3rd gen Camaro? An 80's F150 or Silverado? There are a TON of them with zero to very very little rust. It was somewhere around the late 70's/early 80's when they started to get a handle on rust prevention. Modern cars are dipped in a full zinc bath right after the final welding before primer. That means they're coated inside and out. Then add in plastic bumpers that are part of the body, plastic panels that cover the rockers, etc and you've got some serious rust protection, even for the northeast. With those same cars in the southeast/west... who knows how long before rust will actually be a problem.

2011 Mustang 3.7L Premium Pony Package
2015 Silverado 5.3L 2LT DC Z71
1965 Mustang C Code Coupe 289/T5/3.25
1967 Chevrolet C10 350/700R/3.73
1967 Firebird 400

Last edited by 65 Pony; 03-02-2017 at 05:25 PM.
65 Pony is offline  
post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 05:30 PM
Senior Member
 
65 Pony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 3,168
I'm working on my 67 C10 and this is the only spot of exterior rust on the entire door:



But I knew there was more inside, so I cut the whole panel across to access the inside of the door and I found this:



I had to replace the window regulator on my 2000 Z71 a few years ago. It had spent the first 5 years of it's life in Indianapolis, then the next 11 with me in SC. When I removed the door panel to replace the regulator I expected to see a little rust inside the door bottom... absolutely nothing abut a silvery coating. Again, I would expect the door to be rusted by now if it had remained in Indianapolis, but taking it out of that environment combined with superior coatings means I traded in an absolutely rust free 16 year old truck last year with 180K+ miles on it.

Aside from a few years in NY where it was stored indoors and never driven in the winter, my 67 C10 has spent it's entire life in Texas and SC.

2011 Mustang 3.7L Premium Pony Package
2015 Silverado 5.3L 2LT DC Z71
1965 Mustang C Code Coupe 289/T5/3.25
1967 Chevrolet C10 350/700R/3.73
1967 Firebird 400

Last edited by 65 Pony; 03-02-2017 at 05:33 PM.
65 Pony is offline  
post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 05:51 PM
Senior Member
 
John_Del's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wolcott, CT USA
Posts: 2,681
When I was a diaper loader, a car that went 100K miles was an oddity, and had almost no value ($50 side of the road deal).

Today, when looking at used cars, we say "wow, only 150K miles - low miles!). My Explorer and Grand Cherokee have almost 300K miles each. The Jeep is in perfect condition, the Ex now needs the intake manifold done as it's leaking big time. But up till then, no engine trouble whatsoever. Neither burns a drop of oil or smokes. Both pass emissions testing.

I had an 87 Aerostar about 10 years ago with the 3.0 V6 that had been sitting in my yard a couple of years. This had about 225K miles on it and some rust through the rockers, but otherwise was solid. Some guy drove by my house and wanted to buy it. He returned with a battery and, despite sitting two years, started and immediately idled like it was run that morning. He went for a ride and bought it right there. I saw it in town for at least two more years.

None of those examples are extraordinary.

John

Do NOT send me a private message, email me directly:delstv@aol.com
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...mustangftp.jpg
now sandblasted and DP40'd since this pic was taken.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ngdriveway.jpg
a two legged hole shot, even with a munged up carb and snow tires...
John_Del is offline  
post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 23,422
I should have explained the question. This is unresearched data. Most people aren't in the car hobby. The vast majority buy a car, drive it and trade it in or sell it and get another. Don't buy a vehicle thinking some day someone will want to restore. They know where the gas goes.

As I recall 60 years ago few worked on their own car. People like me/us often went to auto junk yards for car parts. Often the nearby auto yard was the main or only place to get that part. One reason Ford and Chevy dominated the old car hobby is they were built by the many100,000s each year and many uears used interchangeable mechanical parts.

IMO Pa and Ma regular person didn't care about any of this. Just point and drive. They still don't (IMO).

Not suggesting that today's cars might still be around longer in the car hobby for more years than 60s cars. Design/technology has resulted in a more reliable, longer lived (use wise) product.

I love many of the vintage cars, pony and mid size, most brands. To be real 95-2015 you get ABS, air bags, EFI, 100,000 mi tune up. and expected life 200,000 minimum. 65-75. 20,000 tune ups, twice a year carb tune, generally poor safety, poor corrosion resistance.

Ya the vintage cars were much more serviceable but the average Mom and Pop don't care.

For me tinkering/fixing/tweaking is much of the charm/fun of old cars.
silverblueBP likes this.


My '64 1/2 vert. Ordered May '64. D code 4 speed, handling package, caspian blue, accent group, Ford blue manual top.

'68 vert. driver. Owned since Apr '78. C code AT, AC, PS, P disc B, PT lime gold, standard black interior and top. NOS RF fender and left quarter.New top and folding glass.
slim is online now  
post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 09:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Nailbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 776
I live and grew up in the heart of the salt belt. Growing up in the 60's cars rusted through in 3 years. Now it's 10 to 15 years with a disclaimer for Kia, Deawoo (Chevy), and Hyundai.

Cars are a million times better than they were when our Mustangs were built. But they lack soul. Except for the rusting ones built in Seoul of course!
silverblueBP likes this.

65 C Code hardtop from California still wearing it's original paint.
Nailbender is offline  
post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 10:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Lizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 2,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt350sr View Post
When was the last time you saw a mid 2000's F150 with cab corners?
Every day...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_3200.jpg (95.1 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1366.jpg (97.1 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2842.jpg (98.3 KB, 20 views)


67 coupe with 5.0 and C4 (Viper GTS Blue, paint code PBE, since everybody asks)
69 Mach 1 428 SCJ drag pack
Lizer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome