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Old 01-17-2013, 07:14 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Its only 15 feet do yourself a favor and spend an extra $40 on several lengths of conduit, run phone, cable, etc in the second while you have a trench dug. $ depends a lot on current panel box location in house, room in box, type and model, size and brand of new box for shop etc. i ran 100a 220 over 100 feet no idea what i spent now but I did it myself. If you arent 100% comfortable or have a pro buddy its nothing to fool with though.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseBeyondYears View Post
If you can't do the work yourself, go to your local lowes or Home Depot and ask the electrical guy. Usually these guys are retired electricians or out-of-work electricians because of the economy and they will give you a under the table price. If nothing else they may have a friend or too. If you go this route I recommend getting an inspection. The way I understand it is, if there is a fire resulting from faulty, non inspected electrical work, insurance companies CAN deny a claim.
The insurance companies WILL DENY the claim , You had better hire a lic contractor
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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not true. been in the ins bus for 25 yrs. (and also been a side electrician for 30 yrs)

theyd have to pay for fire regarless of DIY or prof installed. so long as it was not an intentional error a fire loss would be covered.
there are no elxcusions on a std home policy for fauly installation caused by a DIYer.

they wont pay for your medical bills if you got knocked on your tail but theyd pay for a neighbors bills who was jolted by the DIY error.

if carriers would be able to deny claims for that then no one would be able to sell OTC eectrcial items.

sure after the fire marshall gets done with you , you may have a fine or two and they may revoke your
C of O until its signed off by a pro and inspected by the town.

the only thing you cant mess with a a DIYer is the outside meter pan. thats sealed by the town and you need a license/permit in most cases for that. but then again at the same time they sell meter pans OTC to anyone so go figure.

for FWIW for gargaged I run 1 inch PVC 18" below grade and 10 guage cooper for any thing 15 amps or less nd run 8 guage for 30 amps.

baccically i guage 1 size up from code of what is required esp if I have a longer run of say 50 feet or more. if you have a super long run of 100 FT then I gauge up 2 sizes.

this might me a little over kill but at least I dont have to worry about voltage drops while runnng compressors and the like.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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not true. been in the ins bus for 25 yrs. (and also been a side electrician for 30 yrs)

theyd have to pay for fire regarless of DIY or prof installed. so long as it was not an intentional error a fire loss would be covered.
there are no elxcusions on a std home policy for fauly installation caused by a DIYer.

they wont pay for your medical bills if you got knocked on your tail but theyd pay for a neighbors bills who was jolted by the DIY error.

if carriers would be able to deny claims for that then no one would be able to sell OTC eectrcial items.

sure after the fire marshall gets done with you , you may have a fine or two and they may revoke your
C of O until its signed off by a pro and inspected by the town.

the only thing you cant mess with a a DIYer is the outside meter pan. thats sealed by the town and you need a license/permit in most cases for that. but then again at the same time they sell meter pans OTC to anyone so go figure.

for FWIW for gargaged I run 1 inch PVC 18" below grade and 10 guage cooper for any thing 15 amps or less nd run 8 guage for 30 amps.

baccically i guage 1 size up from code of what is required esp if I have a longer run of say 50 feet or more. if you have a super long run of 100 FT then I gauge up 2 sizes.

this might me a little over kill but at least I dont have to worry about voltage drops while runnng compressors and the like.
I was refering to having a non lic or non insured elec do the work on the side. I have been hearing this is becomming a big issue and they may not cover jobs that are done outside of the home owner.
I am getting notices all the time baout our work and it must comply with the code or we may not be covered , especialy when it comes to heating system installs and repairs.
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1969 Mach 1 , with American Eagle's 15"x8" 4.25 back space 235/60/R15 BF Goodrich tires
351W Massaged just a little with a mild cam and Edelbrock intake. Holly 650
1968 GMC step side short box
1967 Triumph 650 Tigar Twin Cycle
2007 Mustang
As Red Green Would Say. If It Ain't Broke , your not trying hard enough
Never give up the ship!

My Web Site
www.myclassicvehicals.webs.com
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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well thats a liability issue. guys doing on the side work (like me) do not have contractors insurance. what your company is refering to is that they will have no (or very little) subrogation against the resp party for damages that they pay out to you. so they would have to eat the loss whole heartedly. they dont like that.

what they can do is put a judgement on the side work guy and go from there but a Judge would have to decide that.

see an ins companies game is to pay you and then go to look for reimbursment from the resp party. this is called subrogation.. however their failure to subrogate a claim will have no direct results to you as to getting paid.


so now I cant speak for every co in every state and every sistuation but I can say that any standard run of the mill ins polcy will not exclude DIY or non insured person from doing work then causing a fire b/c of that said work

I refer to the word standard b/c there are non standard polices is excess markets that may very welle exclude such a claim. but this would be a a rare situation regardless
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Last edited by Blues Power; 01-17-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
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What size service do you have in the house? Also i can't see the neutral conductor in your feeder cable, it looks like 2 hot wires is all you have there, probably just can't see it in your pics. Also check your big box lumber/hardware warehouse they usually have some good deals on panels with the breakers included. Like others have said you might already have a large enough supply, just upgrade that panel. Take a look at the panel rating in the house and also note the breaker size feeding your garage.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mymachone View Post
I was refering to having a non lic or non insured elec do the work on the side. I have been hearing this is becomming a big issue and they may not cover jobs that are done outside of the home owner.
I am getting notices all the time baout our work and it must comply with the code or we may not be covered , especialy when it comes to heating system installs and repairs.
I recently built a new home here in Ohio. I did all the electrical work myself. I am not a licensed electrician, but I pulled a homeowners permit and everything was inspected by the building department... Neither my bank or insurance had a problem with it.

-Greg
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I am not against having anyone who knows what they are doing , do the work . I just know that it's getting really nasty these days when an insurance company has to shell out money. In fact the Mich laws have gotten so bad that if a non lic person gets caught doing work for any reason other than his own home , there could be Jail time and hefty fines to boot. There currantly is an ongoing case against a builder who got caught installing a heating system and he is now having to pay back the home owner , the full amount he was pd and he was fines $ 10,000 to boot , and was giving a probation rather than jail time . The home owner came out smelling like a rose , he got his system for free and his hand slapped for allowing this to happen.
Who knows anymore what will happen if a house burns down and they find it was because of faulty electrical work by some one other than the home owner. Is it worth the risk now days I say no. Any time I have work done on my place , I ask for the lic and insurance card. some times the so called saving is no saving but a big head throbber But what ever someone wants to do is fine with me.
What happens when A non lic person drives your car , wrecks it and you know they are not legal ? Will it be covered ?
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1969 Mach 1 , with American Eagle's 15"x8" 4.25 back space 235/60/R15 BF Goodrich tires
351W Massaged just a little with a mild cam and Edelbrock intake. Holly 650
1968 GMC step side short box
1967 Triumph 650 Tigar Twin Cycle
2007 Mustang
As Red Green Would Say. If It Ain't Broke , your not trying hard enough
Never give up the ship!

My Web Site
www.myclassicvehicals.webs.com

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Old 01-18-2013, 09:20 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I think you worry too much but maybe rightly so as you are the few who seem to care. if a non lic person drives your car and wrecks it the company will pay so long as you have Collision.
ive beeen thru many claims with folks with sus and rev license and the company alwasy paid. had a few where an under age teen wrecked the car and another with a under age teen with BAL 3 times the legal limit. those were paid but the laws are quickly changing with drug and alc offenses. some of those are now getting denied

its illegal in my state to exclude a driver. Dont know too much about MI but Id assume its not too different
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1993 GT 11,000 miles, Built 2-12-93 Auto, 3:27 Axle, cloth, sunroof. Untouched except for rubber and battery, Purchased new 8-3-93. still has the factory windshield fluid and new car smell.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:32 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the help so far. I will have some time on sunday to shoot the pics of the house side of the panel. I have a feeling that I'll be all set and just have a pro come over and spend an hour and wire us one 220 outlet right near the panel in the garage. Pics to come tomorrow.

Thanks!!
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the help so far. I will have some time on sunday to shoot the pics of the house side of the panel. I have a feeling that I'll be all set and just have a pro come over and spend an hour and wire us one 220 outlet right near the panel in the garage. Pics to come tomorrow.

Thanks!!
O.K. Here is the house side just as it was the day we bought it 12 yr ago.




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Old 01-21-2013, 01:20 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Holy Crap! Fuses?
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:47 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Holy Crap! Fuses?
Well, yes...........house built in '76 and...........I'm driving a 44 yr old car--I'm slow to modernize. Seriously though, if we had problems, I'd go to a breaker panel but to be honest, in 12 yr of ownership, I haven't changed more than 3 fuses.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:36 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Nothing unsafe about fuses and it looks like a quality installation to begin with. While your electrician is there, have him go over all the connections to verify they are still tight. Looks like you do have 220V in the garage already. What size is that cable on the bottom fuses for panel 'A'?? it will be written on the insulation outside your panel, you will see a number followed by AWG. If you have a black, red and a white wire in your garage you will have 220. You have a 200 amp service since you have electric heat. Your electrician will swap out those 70 amp fuses for 100 amp fuses in panel 'A' since your garage power will be coming from that panel. The ampacity you will have in the garage will depend on the cable size going out there. If you are going to add more circuits in the garage you are going to have to upgrade that panel in the garage as well.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:23 AM   #30 (permalink)
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now there you might have an insurance problem. most companies wont insure a house with fuses. that dont mean they wont pay but if you decide to change they in most intances wont take you as a new customer.

a new service will run somewhere around $1800-2000. imho have that done as soon as you can.

the world switched over to CB sometime aruond 1957. if your hose was bult in 76 the elct codes in your town are very laxed.
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1970 Mach 1 San Jose built Dec 23 1969. Marti says 1 of 7. Purchased in 1987. Original family owner of the powertrain 351C 2v FMX.


1993 GT 11,000 miles, Built 2-12-93 Auto, 3:27 Axle, cloth, sunroof. Untouched except for rubber and battery, Purchased new 8-3-93. still has the factory windshield fluid and new car smell.

Last edited by Blues Power; 01-21-2013 at 09:27 AM.
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