I had to laugh - Fantomworks and the 65 Mustang rack and pinion steering - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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I had to laugh - Fantomworks and the 65 Mustang rack and pinion steering

I was watching what I assume was a rerun of Fantomworks last night on Velocity and this was the one with the Studebaker truck and the 65 Mustang fastback with the owner. I had to laugh when Dan and the guys were complaining how the rack and pinion outer tie rod ends were pointed up instead of down like the LCAs and that it would steer like ****. Did anyone notice the Fantomworks guys installed the tie rod on TOP of the steering spindle arm instead of below

No wonder why the arms didn't follow the angle of the LCA. Anyways, now back to your scheduled program........

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 06:39 PM
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 06:59 PM
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Yea, the owner joined up to settle the rumors. Lets just say creative editing made him look the way he did. Do a search, long thread here on the whole situation.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 07:15 PM
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Can't find it. Anyone have a link? I watched that show last night too. Can't believe the guy didn't want his car when it was done. I cracked up when it did a one wheel wheelie turning the corner at the track.
The Studebaker looked better before they messed with it to me. I guess Im not into plain metal as a finish instead of a decent paint job.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 07:26 PM
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Yeah, the wheelie was funny. 75k? could have been built for Much Less though.
125K way too much for the Stude Truck imho.

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah maybe my comment was a bit harsh and TV editing can be taken a bit out of context. Regardless the tie rod thing IMO was funny.

70 Mach 1 - 351w/T-56
70 SportsRoof - 302/C4
05 F150 FX4
06 BMW 530xi

T56 Conversion
DIY Ron Morris-like Motor Mounts
DIY Engine Crossmember
DIY Camber Eccentric Eliminator Plates
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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And a one wheelie with a 302 motor n/a? Must have been a decent motor and sticky tires. I guess subframe connectors were too much to ask for a $75k build

70 Mach 1 - 351w/T-56
70 SportsRoof - 302/C4
05 F150 FX4
06 BMW 530xi

T56 Conversion
DIY Ron Morris-like Motor Mounts
DIY Engine Crossmember
DIY Camber Eccentric Eliminator Plates

Last edited by buening; 08-19-2013 at 09:10 PM.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 08:36 PM
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65 Mustang build on TV tonight

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 11:50 PM
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I also noticed the tie rod issue and shook my head. It goes to show that if you want something done right you should do it yourself.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 03:33 PM
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Response /Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockman5 View Post
Can't find it. Anyone have a link? I watched that show last night too. Can't believe the guy didn't want his car when it was done. I cracked up when it did a one wheel wheelie turning the corner at the track.
The Studebaker looked better before they messed with it to me. I guess Im not into plain metal as a finish instead of a decent paint job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buening View Post
And a one wheelie with a 302 motor n/a? Must have been a decent motor and sticky tires. I guess subframe connectors were too much to ask for a $75k build
Quote:
Originally Posted by buening View Post
I was watching what I assume was a rerun of Fantomworks last night on Velocity and this was the one with the Studebaker truck and the 65 Mustang fastback with the owner. I had to laugh when Dan and the guys were complaining how the rack and pinion outer tie rod ends were pointed up instead of down like the LCAs and that it would steer like ****. Did anyone notice the Fantomworks guys installed the tie rod on TOP of the steering spindle arm instead of below

No wonder why the arms didn't follow the angle of the LCA. Anyways, now back to your scheduled program........
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68EFIvert View Post
I also noticed the tie rod issue and shook my head. It goes to show that if you want something done right you should do it yourself.
Greetings - I addressed most of the things brought up here in detail on the other post but a couple of things.
- I very much wanted the car but the car was not built the way I wanted and would take too much money to pay Dan and then turn around and re-build it.
- As far as the suspension / steering goes it was a Ridetech True-turn that was made for that car BUT it does use a early model Camaro spindles that basically mimics the Shelby drop. I have no idea if the spindles were installed upside down or not. According to Dan it took significant re-engineering (labor-hours-money) to get it too work. Just wondering if anyone has used this system with the Flaming River rack and if they had any issues with the suspension.
- Just a guess on my part and I have not seen the show but I think the reason the wheel comes up is the suspension was not set up correctly. It is adjustable and maybe it was not adjusted before he pounded on the car. It seemed like real nice system. Also the car is all gear and no engine but that is just my opinion.
- I wanted to install sub-frame connectors but the shop refused to install them because they installed a convertible floor and both Dan and the fab shop stated they were not needed. Has anyone hadexsperance with this and know if its true.
-C

Last edited by StillaDream; 08-23-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 08:15 PM
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Yes, apparently the convertible structure added is much stronger than subframe connectors. There have been a few discussions on it here. I went with the sub frame connectors though. I guess I read about the conv. parts after I bought my TinMan connectors.

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 09:06 PM
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The convertible has several additional parts to provide addition strength. The primary addition is the inner frame rails which essentially doubles the strength of the rocker panel. There are also torque boxes on both sides. The floor itself is reinforced top and bottom. On the bottom there are reinforcement boxes under the seats. On the top a one piece seat riser is used. Combined these should provide excellent additional strength. For racing however I would still use welded frame rail connectors.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 09:26 PM
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What type of racing? The reason the car raised the driver side wheel in the video is directly related to the torque or twist in the engine and the way the driver was turning the car during acceleration. Sub-frame connectors will not solve that problem. As previously mentioned, there are several discussions on here about sub-frame connectors versus 'very parts and the benefits (or not) of them.

Think about it his way, with sub-frame connectors you tie the front and rear frame rails together with another member which are held together with a thin piece of sheet metal, the floor pan. Apply a load (force), torque in this case produced by the engine. The only thing preventing your parallel members (frame rails and sub-frame connectors) from twisting is the floor pan. Not a lot of structure there to prevent twist. Therefore, the wheel lifts under hard acceleration and simultaneous cornering.

Now look at adding torque boxes (which counteract twist), inner rocker frame rails (sub-frame connectors), 'vert inner and outer seat pan members (tying both sides together) now you have a composite multi-member system to counteract the forces (moments) introduced into the overall body produced by the engine during hard acceleration and cornering.

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 10:51 PM
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Lifting a wheel in a turn is related to too stiff of a rear sway bar. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the original owner had the right idea but the shops opinion was not accurate, but now we are just pissing in the wind on these things. I don't think it turned out very nice IMHO.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2013, 01:08 AM
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As it appears in the show (i.e.- lifting the left front) the car's suspension
is improperly set up...... period, end of sentence.

I could see the car was a handful at the blisteringly fast 45 mph they were
going on the track.

A car's "frame" can be so stiff that it has absolutely no twist and with
the suspension properly set up, it WON'T lift a corner.

Four tires planted on the road course is infinitely faster than three about
99.95% of the time......
That same rule is equally important in roundy-round racing.

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Last edited by GT289; 08-24-2013 at 01:10 AM.
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