Electric Steering with Fail-Safe: No eBay module needed. Pics & Videos ! - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #16 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GypsyR View Post
In your opinion which column would be the best donor for a 1968 style collapsible column? And for an earlier long-shaft column?
I'm not real clear on what all would need to be done to retain the stock look and fit of the upper column on '65-68 cars either. Lots of info presented though, perhaps I'm overlooking some. I freely admit to being a video how-to hater, so tend to fast forward through them with the sound muted when I just have to watch one.
You've obviously put a lot of time and effort into all this, thanks!
For EPS use Prius/Corolla EPS. They are easy to find.

Early Spear Column - Cut the long shaft and belt on Borgeson 312500 to mate with output shaft of EPS. This is a coupler 11/16-36 spline X 3/4 Smooth Bore

1968 style collapsible column, use the Prius lower adapter which has OD of 0.750". Cut the Mustangs original lower shaft which has ID of 0.760" and slide over the Prius adapter and weld.

Measure twice maybe three times before you cut!

Waid
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post #17 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyR View Post
In your opinion which column would be the best donor for a 1968 style collapsible column? And for an earlier long-shaft column?
I'm not real clear on what all would need to be done to retain the stock look and fit of the upper column on '65-68 cars either. Lots of info presented though, perhaps I'm overlooking some. I freely admit to being a video how-to hater, so tend to fast forward through them with the sound muted when I just have to watch one.
You've obviously put a lot of time and effort into all this, thanks!
The best option to maintain collapsible steering is to use Male/Female Double D shafts. This is my next iteration. I found that 19831988 Thunder Bird had this type of shaft from the factory. I took the a Toyota Rack and Pinion extension/adapter that is similar to Prius and machined Double D flats on it. This now slides in to the Female part of the Double D shaft and the male shaft sticks out of the firewall for my Rack and Pinion.

Waid
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post #18 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 08:58 PM
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Is there any issues with removing a rag joint / rubber coupler and replacing it with a solid fitting or u joint besides possible vibration?
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post #19 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:25 PM
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So, I'm a little late to all this but are you saying that with the appropriate ecu and fail safe it provides the correct amount of steering assist without the need for a controller?

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post #20 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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If you still have the long spear steering shaft, it's best to cut it up high and use Use Borgeson 312500, 11/16-36 Splines X 3/4 smooth bore weld coupling. Just weld to steering box shaft. I could not do it this way because I cut my steering at low point long time ago. This will also support the EPS as well. Then all you need is the half round strap mount to support the upper tube. Also a simple bracket is needed for anti-torque to keep the motor from moving. Nothing big.

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post #21 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:36 PM
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At one time I swapped my '67's long shaft column and box out for a '68 collapsible setup. I was kind of thinking I might swap back if I do an EPAS modification. I kept the '67 parts around and I'd rather butcher them for it and so maybe save the '68 stuff for someone else.
That intermediate shaft from the Tbird looks familiar. I feel like similar year Mustangs may also have that but I'd have to have a look.
I saw you have a video of one in a car, have any been road-tested?

Last edited by GypsyR; 10-14-2016 at 09:38 PM.
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post #22 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by billywatson1205 View Post
So, I'm a little late to all this but are you saying that with the appropriate ecu and fail safe it provides the correct amount of steering assist without the need for a controller?
In Prius Service Manual:

FAIL-SAFE CHART
When a problem occurs in the electronic motor power
steering system, the P/S warning is indicated on the multidisplay,
the master warning light on the combination meter
comes on, and steering power assist is stopped, fixed at a
particular point, or decreased simultaneously to protect the
system.


Another words, the EPS provides fixed assist when there is a fault in CAN BUS such as CAN BUS wire is cut. If it detects fault in torque sensor, the unit will not provide any assist all. One time I forgot to connect the torque sensor connector and therefore it did not provide assist.

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post #23 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:40 PM
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Well the reason I asked is because my father in laws cobalt epas failed and there was no assist at all. I read where you said the domestics didn't have the fail safe. Have you tested the assist level of the fail safe in driving conditions and provide some feedback.

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post #24 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyR View Post
At one time I swapped my '67's long shaft column and box out for a '68 collapsible setup. I was kind of thinking I might swap back if I do an EPAS modification. I kept the '67 parts around and I'd rather butcher them for it and so maybe save the '68 stuff for someone else.
That intermediate shaft from the Tbird looks familiar. I feel like similar year Mustangs may also have that but I'd have to have a look.
I saw you have a video of one in a car, have any been road-tested?
No road test yet. I still need exhaust. In my garage the steering effort feels like my 2013 Honda Civic. This leads to be to believe Toyota may have fixed it so the driver can still drive the car unlike Chevy where you lose the steering completely !

To be honest, I don't want to plug anything into the steering ECU for safety. Since I found that these unis works in Fail-Safe, I took the plunge.

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post #25 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:50 PM
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You still have steering on a cobalt, but it without any assistance. I drove his car home from my house when it failed.

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post #26 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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Well the reason I asked is because my father in laws cobalt epas failed and there was no assist at all. I read where you said the domestics didn't have the fail safe. Have you tested the assist level of the fail safe in driving conditions and provide some feedback.
I actually pulled a Chevy Cobalt EPS at Salvage yard to verify if it had any Fail-Safe. It did not just like Saturn Vue. No Fail-Safe.

No road test yet. I still need exhaust. In my garage the steering effort feels like my 2013 Honda Civic which is fine by me.

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post #27 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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You still have steering on a cobalt, but it without any assistance. I drove his car home from my house when it failed.
The problem with Saturn Vue and Cobalt EPS is that the ECU is fixed mount and not removable and sometimes they go bad. Therefore, you have to remove the entire steering column. You could carefully de-solder the old ECU and mount another one.

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post #28 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Well this is awesome. Based on your experimentation, are there any that look to be a better solution from a packaging standpoint? I know things can be tight for the 65-66 guys.
The Nissan Versa and Toyota Yaris has the smallest gearbox, motor and overall package. If you are going to use it with Steering Box, they will work fine but will be too small for a Rack and Pinion because of high loads.

The Versa has the ECU mounted on the column but it has connectors and it is removable. On the Prius, Yaris and Corolla, the ECU is mounted high up under the dash cover on drivers side.

I have not tested it but there are several later model Nissan Versa Steering Columns with ECU for $100. I am willing to bet it also works in Fail-Safe. It's output shaft is same as Saturn Vue.

eBay Listings:

12 13 Nissan Versa Sedan Without Fog Lamps Steering Wheel Column Shaft Rod | eBay

Steering Column Electric Motor Pump w Module 2012 Nissan Versa Sedan | eBay



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Last edited by 52681; 10-14-2016 at 10:25 PM.
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post #29 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-15-2016, 09:18 AM
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You can buy the same type of Bruno controller for the prius also. It's made by someone else. They have been making these controllers for all kinds of cars in Europe for about a decade now, as they started doing EPAS swaps over there a long time ago.
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post #30 of 137 (permalink) Old 10-15-2016, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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You can buy the same type of Bruno controller for the prius also. It's made by someone else. They have been making these controllers for all kinds of cars in Europe for about a decade now, as they started doing EPAS swaps over there a long time ago.
Why buy a controller for Prius when you don't need one? The Saturn Vue has to have one.

Everyone assumed that all EPS are like Saturn Vue and that an external module is needed. No one bothered to try other EPS and test them to see if it was true.

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