Electric Steering with Fail-Safe: No eBay module needed. Pics & Videos ! - Page 3 - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #31 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-15-2016, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Note: As with any modification, there are risks. This post is intended to show how I did my modification. Use it at your own risk!
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post #32 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 07:25 AM
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Subscribed. There are many good points here. Thank you

'68 coupe 289 C4 (featured in Mustangs & Fords July 2003)
'67 convertible 5.0L EFI conversion
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post #33 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 05:25 PM
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As Waid has stated, with the Prius unit why buy an external controller when you don't need one? Nowhere to connect it anyway unless it is a Can buss controller. Works entirely different than the Saturn/Cobalt steering unit.

Even though the Prius unit defaults to a fixed assist not variable, according to Waid apparently they have set the assist level at a reasonable level to work just fine. That makes it easy and nothing to adjust.
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post #34 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 05:49 PM
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Just ordered a column and ECU from a 2009 Prius. Honestly at this point I'm hoping its strong enough. My car has 7 degrees of castor, quick ratio borgeson box and quick ratio pitman and idler arms. Not to mention 245 really sticky tires up front. I suppose we Shall see. Would also be cool to make the tilt and telescope features still work. Time to fire up the welder I suppose! But will be worth it to loose the saginaw pump on the front of my motor, I HATE how it looks.


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post #35 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Just ordered a column and ECU from a 2009 Prius. Honestly at this point I'm hoping its strong enough. My car has 7 degrees of castor, quick ratio borgeson box and quick ratio pitman and idler arms. Not to mention 245 really sticky tires up front. I suppose we Shall see. Would also be cool to make the tilt and telescope features still work. Time to fire up the welder I suppose! But will be worth it to loose the saginaw pump on the front of my motor, I HATE how it looks.
What is the ratio ?

I tested the Prius with Cavalier Rack & Pinion with 3 turns lock-to-lock with 205/55-16 Tires and no issues.

Last edited by Waid302; 10-16-2016 at 06:13 PM.
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post #36 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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In order to use the column assist EPS with power steering box or power rack and pinion, they must be converted to manual first. Otherwise it will feel sloppy. Bench test the EPS before starting cutting !

Waid
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File Type: jpg 8 Rack.jpg (92.8 KB, 137 views)
File Type: jpg 9 Rack.jpg (94.7 KB, 125 views)
File Type: jpg 11 Rack.jpg (93.2 KB, 117 views)
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post #37 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waid302 View Post
What is the ratio ?

I tested the Prius with Cavalier Rack & Pinion with 3 turns lock-to-lock with 205/55-16 Tires and no issues.
About the same 3-turns lock to lock or so. Confused about the mods to the borgeson box though. Why would it be sloppy? Can you explain that a bit more?


My Build thread:
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1966 Coupe I6 with australian head and a weber carb - Gone but not forgotten

2007 Mustang GT custom ordered - SOLD!!

1966 Fastback A-code - Finally Painted

2015 - JEEP Grand Cherokee Altitude Brand new daily driver/parts hauler

Last edited by RyanSterling966; 10-16-2016 at 08:02 PM.
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post #38 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 08:50 PM
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I can say after driving for a year with an equinox system and bruno controller, i would not like the system nearly as much without the rheostat. Sometimes i want more, sometimes less. In an autocross from hell, small tight shopping ctr, i was able to beat the system spinning the wheel and overpowered the system. I dialed up the assist, and it was fine next time arround.
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post #39 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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About the same 3-turns lock to lock or so. Confused about the mods to the borgeson box though. Why would it be sloppy? Can you explain that a bit more?
It's complicated but here it goes:

The valve assembly are made up of 4 major components. The input shaft, worm shaft, the sleeve and the torsion bar. There are oil passages (metering lands) between the sleeve and the input shaft that you cannot see.

This is how they are assembled in sequence:

1. The torsion bar is pressed inside the worm shaft.
2. A tiny pin is pressed on to the outer diameter of the worm shaft to locate the sleeve.
3. The sleeve is placed over this pin
4. Input shaft is inserted over the torsion bar and inside the sleeve.
5. After hydraulically centering the valve, the torsion bar is pinned to the input shaft.

As the steering wheel turns the input shaft, and as the input shaft move while the sleeve remaining stationary, oil passages opens up directing hydraulic oil/pressure in either direction causing the piston to move.

As the piston continues to move, it will cause to the worm to move. Since the worm has a pin on it and the sleeve is pinned to it, the sleeve will also move. As the sleeve moves, it will close off the oil passages and the piston will stop moving.

This happens so quickly, you don't notice the lag in this sequence of events. This is why when you turn the steering, it does not simply keeps going! If the sleeve pin ever breaks, the steering will take off one way or the other until it bottoms out and you end up in the ditch or the wall!

Now the torsion bar. The diameter of the torsion bar controls the "feel" of the steering. Thinner the bar, the less effort it take to move the steering and larger the diameter, the harder it is to move.

To your question:

Without hydraulic pressure, you have to move the input shaft until it bottoms out of the hard stop flats and then you will move the steering. The hard stops are there for safety in case of pressure loss. The steering will feel very sloppy because you have to constantly go to the hard stop before the steering moves.

Therefore, you have to make a the worm shaft as one with the input shaft by removing the sleeve and tack welding the input to the worm. You may not want to do this to your expensive steering box. Find used manual box for power steering.

Hope this helps.

Waid
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ford-power-steering-box-spool-valve.jpg (28.7 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1854.jpg (63.6 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg Spool valve.jpg (40.9 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg 11 Rack.jpg (93.2 KB, 55 views)
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post #40 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 09:33 PM
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I literally think my brain just exploded. But what I am gathering is that its not as simple as welding this on to my current shaft, disconnecting my pump lines and running some wires.
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1966 Coupe I6 with australian head and a weber carb - Gone but not forgotten

2007 Mustang GT custom ordered - SOLD!!

1966 Fastback A-code - Finally Painted

2015 - JEEP Grand Cherokee Altitude Brand new daily driver/parts hauler
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post #41 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 10:12 PM
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I literally think my brain just exploded. But what I am gathering is that its not as simple as welding this on to my current shaft, disconnecting my pump lines and running some wires.
It can be simple depending what you have now and are trying to do. Back when I cut the Saturn steering box into my ranchero it was just a matter of cutting the steering box shaft, inserting the motor in place and doing the wiring. Mine was as simple as it gets and the results are tremendous.
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post #42 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-16-2016, 10:20 PM
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I have a feeling what is going to make things more complicated is that I am currently running borgeson with a quick ratio box. So doing this with a box meant for power seems to complicate it. But I love the feel of the box I have so I may scrap the idea. Don't honestly feel like cracking it open to weld s$%^ together.


My Build thread:
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...thank-you.html

1966 Coupe I6 with australian head and a weber carb - Gone but not forgotten

2007 Mustang GT custom ordered - SOLD!!

1966 Fastback A-code - Finally Painted

2015 - JEEP Grand Cherokee Altitude Brand new daily driver/parts hauler
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post #43 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-17-2016, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanSterling966 View Post
I have a feeling what is going to make things more complicated is that I am currently running borgeson with a quick ratio box. So doing this with a box meant for power seems to complicate it. But I love the feel of the box I have so I may scrap the idea. Don't honestly feel like cracking it open to weld s$%^ together.
I tried sending you a PM about this eps topic, but it won't go through. If you do decide to not follow through, what are your plans for the parts you ordered? Possibly sell? I have been thinking about this for a while on my 68 and this might help me commit to doing the conversion.

'68 coupe 289 C4 (featured in Mustangs & Fords July 2003)
'67 convertible 5.0L EFI conversion
'90 LX 5.0L
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post #44 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-18-2016, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbenichou289 View Post
I tried sending you a PM about this eps topic, but it won't go through. If you do decide to not follow through, what are your plans for the parts you ordered? Possibly sell? I have been thinking about this for a while on my 68 and this might help me commit to doing the conversion.
Sorry about that, I just cleared out some space. Not sure what to do with the parts I got honestly. Drove the car in to work today and I love how the steering feels so much I really can't decide if tearing it all down is worth it or not.

Plus I just got it back together after yet another big round of projects. So I may have to think on it a while.


My Build thread:
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...thank-you.html

1966 Coupe I6 with australian head and a weber carb - Gone but not forgotten

2007 Mustang GT custom ordered - SOLD!!

1966 Fastback A-code - Finally Painted

2015 - JEEP Grand Cherokee Altitude Brand new daily driver/parts hauler
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post #45 of 173 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RyanSterling966 View Post
I have a feeling what is going to make things more complicated is that I am currently running borgeson with a quick ratio box. So doing this with a box meant for power seems to complicate it. But I love the feel of the box I have so I may scrap the idea. Don't honestly feel like cracking it open to weld s$%^ together.
If you can, get your hands on used manual steering box before altering the borgeson box.

Waid
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