I've been reading about the coyote swaps and was wondering if anyone has used a 5.0 from a newer Mustang GT instead of buying a motor from Ford Performance. I have found several low mileage salvage mustangs that have a complete drivetrain that can be purchased for less than the cost of a new motor, transmission and rear end. Seems to me that the Ford Performance ECU could be used to make this work. Any thoughts? I would be putting it in a 1968 C code fastback.
Good lord! That's a lot of trouble for a few more looks at the car show...maybe some faster wheel burning, but a built 302 or a modest 347 can do the same thing.
Yes it can be done. However I believe you cannot fit it in the stock shock towers so you would have to go to a different front suspension. A lot of work but the coyote technology is an incredible engine!
I was all set to do this. Shock towers out, new R&C suspension installed. I had a 2014 Mustang GT so the way that car performed got me all geeked out to put the same drivetrain in my 67. However...when all is said and done, and after researching for months and weighing options, I decided that can get similar power out of a stroker 302, and run fitech (or similar) EFI so when you pop the hood, it has the old school carb look. Way, way cheaper and honestly much closer to a true "bolt in". I decided I have enough challenges with this build, and cussing at a Coyote/6 spd install was not worth the hassle. The transmission is another big factor. The MT-82 is not the greatest gearbox and it's huge compared to a T5.
Good luck, if you tackle it as others have, the reward is going to be pretty sweet.
I applaud your efforts at going forward on such a swap. Don't let the nay sayers hold you back. The benefits are enormous. The power potential is incredible. 700 hp with a blower, exhaust and tune. Anyone who says he can do that with a 302 for the same cash is dreaming. Have a look here for encouragement. There are loads of examples but this is a good one.
I applaud your efforts at going forward on such a swap. Don't let the nay sayers hold you back. The benefits are enormous. The power potential is incredible. 700 hp with a blower, exhaust and tune. Anyone who says he can do that with a 302 for the same cash is dreaming. Have a look here for encouragement. There are loads of examples but this is a good one.
Thanks for all the comments. At this point I'm still undecided as to what to do. My original idea was to make a Bullitt tribute with a 390 and four speed. That would require a complete drivetrain swap including a 9" rear end with posi. I was thinking for not much more cash I could get a late model GT from an insurance auction and have everything I need including AC. Granted, the mods in the engine bay would have to be considered and the suspension upgraded, but I was planning in upgrading the suspension anyway. I did a google search for totaled GT's and I was surprised at how many there were. I have no idea what they sell for at the auction but if I could get a low mileage vehicle for under $10,000 I think I would come out ahead. I could also ebay any parts I could salvage to help recoup some of the cost.
Do you really expect to easily drop in the HVAC system from a late model into a vintage car ? You are really glossing over the amount of custom work, and parts ($$) required to get this done. The big question, do you have the skills/tools to do the work, or will you be paying to have it done for you ?
I don't expect any of it to be "easy". The car was an AC car originally. If I install a swap 5.0 with an AC compressor already on the motor, then it would just be a matter of running the lines and hooking everything up. It would be the same as adding a vintage air unit in my way of thinking. But I may be way off base. As to whether I have the skills/tools to do the work, what I lack in "skills" I am confident I will learn. 90% of the battle is willingness to tackle the job. I do expect it to be quite a challenge though...
Nuvoturbo, just a heads-up on the Coyote AC compressor. It is a variable compressor not just a standard AC compressor like you would find on an older car. They use 134a and some people say you can use it just like the older compressors and some say you shouldn't. Do a search on mechanical variable compressors and you make up your own mind. Vintage Air has there own take on the subject and why they should be replaced with something old school. I think buying a complete car is a great money saver. I purchased a 2014 Mustang GT for another project and kept the 6 way leather seats, shoulder harnesses, disk brakes, engine and etc.and sold the trans. and a lot of the other desirable pieces on Craigslist. You might also check out the wiring harness and ECU redo that Ron Francis has for the Coyote. It allows you to put the ECU and power control panel where you want to by supplying an extra long wiring harness that is coded to make it easy.
Cruzzar, thanks for the info on the Coyote compressor. I'll definitely look into the pros and cons of using it. As I said, if I could pick up a donor car for a good price I think it would be easy to sell off parts I won't be using. I obviously have a lot of research to do before I decide which way to go.
Pros: Modern factory power and reliability
Cons: TONS of modifications, suspension, steering, shock towers, PB? PS? Both are a maybe. Tons of wiring to do
351/408 + Sniper/Fitech
Pros: HUGE packaging advantage, can run all "classic" options. V belts, factory HVAC, PB/PS, maintains classic look in the engine bay, maintains factory shock towers, steering and suspension should you choose to keep it that way
Cons: Requires new fuel system (I Do not recommend the remote hi pressure fuel pump cans, do it right and run a new system).
Gotta think you could build a pretty nasty 408 with AL heads and the Fuel Injection setup for $10k tops. Used Coyote plus supporting/required mods is going to be $15k. The 408 would make more power than the stock Coyote.
G'luck either way, the Coyote has certainly been done a bunch at this point. Now if you ran across a 5.2 flat plane ....
If you really want to save on a Coyote motor, the
2011 and later F-150 has a V8 engine option for
the 5L DOHC Coyote. You can usually get the truck
version much cheaper than the Mustang version.
Most folks just don't think about it as being the
same engine. The truck cams favor torque over
max HP, and the compression is 10.5:1 rather than
11:1. Otherwise, there's just not that big of a
difference in stock performance. The engine guts
are identical. Block, crank, rods, pistons, heads,
intake, etc are all the same. If you add a blower
or turbo later, either motor will make about the
same power.
I agree with an earlier post that the T56 Magnum
is a much better trans than the stock MT85. I'd
avoid the wrecked Mustangs for that reason alone.
I also favor using the Ford racing ECU kit over
a stock ECU and wiring harness. What a mess
the stock wiring would be to deal with. Not worth
the trouble.
I am all about the coyote myself. Plan to convert my fastback to a Coyote and I have gone back and forth on buying a salvage motor versus a Ford crate motor. I am going to probably just do the Ford Crate motor which isn't much more at this point based on salvage prices and it makes the conversion easier if you buy the ford control pack. Get the transmission from MDL along with everything i need. Lots of suspension choices these days as well from TCI to Rod and Customs to Heidts.
Cleveland performance will sell you a Coyote running on a pallet. They call it turn key and you can see and hear the engine running before you buy it.
Lots of information out there and its getting easier to do then it was a few years ago as power braking has been figured out as well. I use the revologycars.com website a bunch to figure out how they did it as well.
And of course you should do it if you have the means and don't care about shock towers or keeping an original power train.
But this is one of those things where my advice is that if you have to ask, you aren't ready. Do your research. Don't get in over your head. Proceed when ready.
Been looking at this myself, but my 67 has a 351 so still undecided.
In regards to price, that depends on how you go about it. As mentioned, if you go with a Truck 5.0 you'll save a ton of money. They are on ebay with low mileage and complete pull outs for $1700+. Also, in regards to the transmission you can put a T-3650 5 speed behind one and be on the road. Obviously if you are looking to make 700hp then you'd want to go a different route with the transmission, but for around $3000 you can get a 5.0/3650 together. It would be hard to get 400HP reliably from a 302/351 for that money.
That estimate glosses over lots of details. Is the new front suspension and shock tower modifications free? The wiring and computer for you "pull-out" ? No way you're at $3000 all in.
You may have shock towers, but you still had to fit an aftermarket suspension, with the associated cost. It doesn't look like your build is complete? If so, even you don't know the final cost to get everything working properly.
I have the same issue with "budget engine build" costs. Almost nobody gives the true cost, labor is free, I just "had parts lying around", blah blah. Oh yeah, I built my 400 HP 347 for $450 and a dirty pair of socks".
I've got no problem with coyote swaps, I'd just like to see them represented more accurately.
That's $15,800. You could have done without the CJ intake, and maybe a little cheaper on the headers but they are probably custom to fit.
Servicing that motor will not be fun for pulling plugs etc, but it does fit and something I did not know, so thanks.
I still have to think that a coil over kit in "stock" style suspension and steering, high end box/PS combo, a built 351 with TB FI, and a killer brake kit would walk all over this combo on track for $2-3k less. No that is not always the intent, and even when it is most don't "really" get used in that fashion. Just me providing reference in my own head.
The numbers make me feel better about the $15k claim I made
I'm in the process of building a 1966 Mustang Convertible equipped with a 2016 Crate Coyote, T56, hydroboost power brakes, rack and pinion power steering, AC, remote oil cooler, and a few other goodies. It is most definitely possible to go with a crate engine, but other than the alternator (might interfere with frame or A arm depending on your suspension), and AC compressor (may not work with your serpentine kit), you won't be able to reuse much from the donor car. Yes, you will need to purchase the appropriate Ford Control Pack. There are a lot of great suspension kits from vendors like: Heitds, TCI, and MTF. Whichever vendor you choose, I would definitely recommend thoroughly planning everything out prior to making your first purchase. Best of luck!
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Vintage Mustang Forums
4M posts
89.2K members
Since 2001
A forum community dedicated to vintage Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about restoration, modifications, NOS parts, troubleshooting, VIN codes, and more!