Anyone ready to take the leap of faith yet? I already have their EvM Vintage Watts Link, which is a quality piece! However, The EvM Vintage Rear Suspension does come at a hefty price (about $3,500+ for the entire rear system - watts link included)!! The problem is, if I decide to go with a TCP G-Bar, Heidt's, or Max-G Suspension System (Highland Daytona Racing), I would have to scrap the EvM watts links entirely for a new/different setup, so I'm kinda knee-deep in it already!
I am very close to ordering a rear coil over suspension for my 69. I have it narrowed down to the HDR Max G,TCP G-Bar or the EvM tri-link.Out of the 3 the tri-link is the highest price one. I never noticed but it was brought to my attention that the tri-link hangs very low. Almost looks like if you get a flat tire it might drag the ground. I also emailed them and asked about the exhaust running out the back of the car. They have not yet gotten a system that runs out the back but will address it in the next 2 weeks.If I do go with their system I am going to wait to see about the exhaust. For me it must go out the back.
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69 Mach 1 427 Windsor,T-56 6 Speed,4.56 Traction Loc
To address your concern about the TriLink hanging low...
John,
We posted a few more pics so you can get a better look at everything. As the days go on, we will post others.
Nevertheless, I assume your concern is with the tower that the LCA bolts to. All of the three and 4 link systems available, have similar bracketry. The height of the tower is required to achieve improved suspension geometry. Our system will allow you to run 14" wheels. The lower control arm bracket is 1/4" above the wheel lip of a 14" wheel. In other words, if you get a flat, the tower will not drag the ground. Our tower has 3 holes in it, to allow for suspension geometry adjustments relative to ride height, and to minimize axle wind-up and reaction loads through the suspension attachments.
If you find a system that does not invade this space below the axle tube, its not worth investing. Geometries, will simply not be improved.
Regarding the HDR system that was highlighted in the first post. With regards to the rear suspension, the geometry appears to be non-adjustable (1" - 2" in ride can dramatically alter the suspension characteristics). The suspension itself with the severely canted lower arms and very short upper arms also lends itself to poor geometry linearity through travel.
If you combine the fact that you cannot adjust the geometry relative to ride height, with a system that appears to change dramatically through suspension travel...chances are you will be very disappointed. As for the subframe offering, the center X is much too skewed, with inappropriate tubing diameters to be effective. The side pieces appear to be nothing more than jacking rails.
Not trying to call anyone out, just wanting to make sure everyone is looking at this from a suspension frame of reference.
I was 99% sure I was going to go with the TCP G-link setup as the EVM was taking so long. Decisions, Decisions.
The G-link is a proven system that has good reviews, the EvM system looks great on paper (computer screen!) but is still generally unproven in the real world.
I realize they are two completely different designs so I guess it will come down to which one will work best for my application.
The considerably higher cost of the EvM system will have some bearing on the decision too.
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1968 S code GT Fastback
1937 Ford Coupe Street Rod
1966 Galaxie 500 XL
1969 F100 Ranger
1972 F100 Ranger XLT Shortbox
1978 F150 Lariat Shortbox 4x4
1979 F100 Lariat Shortbox
1990 Thunderbird SuperCoupe
2003 Mustang Mach 1
I realize they are two completely different designs so I guess it will come down to which one will work best for my application.
BTW, What is your application?
On another note, I realize that our new system is just that; however, for those of you who do not know much about us, we figured it may not hurt to spend a few sentences related to our background.
First and foremost, we are engineers. We have over a decade of OEM experience in vehicle dynamics and suspension development/tuning…We have logged thousands of hours at the proving grounds tuning thousands of vehicles. All of our designs are put though OEM rigor, and are purpose built. Our first foray into the aftermarket was back in 2002, where we won a SEMA award for our Frame mounted Watts link (the first commercially available in the aftermarket). After that we hit the market with our three link systems for the late model Mustangs. Our watts and three link systems for the late model Mustangs have been installed on hundreds of cars over the past few years, with great acclaim.
Our vintage designs are direct descendants of the Fox/SN95 designs and came about from multiple customer requests. Hope that helps a little.
Thanks Mike. I'm sorry if I made it sound like your design was somehow inferior because it is new and not installed on "working" Mustangs.
Your watts link and your late model three link system all seem to get rave reviews, so I have no doubt that you have done your homework on the vintage three link, but, it is still unknown "exactly" how the system actually works.
As far as "my" application, well here goes; Lots of high speed highway driving over rough and sometimes broken pavement. (the only kind we seem to have around here) That gets me to the drag strip three to four times a season. I also autocross the car a couple times a season, if I can find someone hosting an event. I would like to drive the care to a HPDE, but that will have to wait. This pretty much takes up my car's "season", I only get about 12 weeks max to enjoy my toys, so I tend to drive them hard when I do get the time.
By the way, the car is my Wife's 68 GT Fastback S code, and I know, a big block is probably not the best car to try to make handle, but I do what I can.
David
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1968 S code GT Fastback
1937 Ford Coupe Street Rod
1966 Galaxie 500 XL
1969 F100 Ranger
1972 F100 Ranger XLT Shortbox
1978 F150 Lariat Shortbox 4x4
1979 F100 Lariat Shortbox
1990 Thunderbird SuperCoupe
2003 Mustang Mach 1
I see you have posted more pics to your website, which gives a better perspective than the initial close-up shots - Thanks! Can you get the car on a lift to give a full view of the entire setup? That would be very helpful. I would also like to see a shot(s) from the front looking towards the rear of the car to get that perspective as well. Pics of car sitting on the ground also helps to shed some light on how the setup will look. Thanks for posting those new shots!
We will get some shots with the car on a lift. We were hoping to get them last weekend, but we just didn't have the time. We have the car back in the shop to go through some of the final geometries. Hopefully we will get some pics on the lift this week.
Mike @ EVM-
Please don't take this the wrong way. I really am just interested in the answer.
As an engineer, can you quantify the benefits of your system? Brakes can be measured in stopping distance, engine parts in HP or TQ improvemets, etc. What metrics are you looking at when you engineer a system like this, and to what degree are they improved over the baseline leaf spring setup? TIA
I have been eyeing the TCP G-Bar setup but this has my attention now. I have a couple questions re clearance.
1) Will it fit on a convertible, 68 to be specific?
2) Rear exhaust, is it a possibility?
3) Clearance by the fuel tank, I have an electric fuel pump that is mounted from a bracket that is bolted the the same spot the fuel tank is screwed down to. Basically straight down from the gas tank flange. Will this cause cause problems with the watts linkage?
4) Is it truely bolt in with no modifications to the rear end housing? i.e. brackets to weld on ....
Sorry if you have alread posted this information. I skimmed through the post and did not notice the information.
I was thinking the same thing earlier today. You beat me to the punch! I'm not sure what kind of numbers we need for a "significant" discount, but count me in. I know Mike and the guys at EvM did their market research before pricing this thing out, but If it were about $500 cheaper, I would buy it in heartbeat!
I have been eyeing the TCP G-Bar setup but this has my attention now. I have a couple questions re clearance.
1) Will it fit on a convertible, 68 to be specific?
2) Rear exhaust, is it a possibility?
3) Clearance by the fuel tank, I have an electric fuel pump that is mounted from a bracket that is bolted the the same spot the fuel tank is screwed down to. Basically straight down from the gas tank flange. Will this cause cause problems with the watts linkage?
4) Is it truely bolt in with no modifications to the rear end housing? i.e. brackets to weld on ....
Sorry if you have alread posted this information. I skimmed through the post and did not notice the information.
Darreld
Lets see if we can cover the questions.
1. I am not aware of any issues on the 1968 Convertible. Is there something about the convertible in particular that concerns you? A picture would help.
2. Rear exhaust is high on our list. We should be sorting it out over the next few days.
3. Clearance to the fuel tank. A picture if you have it would help.
4. Truly bolt on. There is one bracket that will need to be welded to the top of the diff (the rear attachment for the upper link).
There have been a host of questions related to performance metrics. We are working on a document to outline the characteristics of our suspension. This will cover our design criteria and compare our system to the other offerings in the market.
As a teaser, all of the suspension systems already mentioned in this thread are simply packaged systems. Over the past several weeks/months we have contacted the various vendors (several times) and they have not been able to answer any of our questions that were related to actual suspension geometry. Just because it fits, doesn't mean it works. When we finish the document, we will post it to our website.
In the past we have tried the group buy thing, but they seem to drag on and never get organized all that well. With that said, if we were to get an email this Friday (1/11/2008) with a minimum of 10 names committed to the purchase of the entire system (Watts/TriLink/Stabar/Aluminum LCA), we may revisit the Group buy.
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