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Old 11-12-2008, 12:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I am in the process of purchasing a rebuilt 302 and a new 4 speed toploader (from someone on VMF) to swap out for my questionable 289 and leaky/slipping C4.

My biggest concern is the extra parts and work that may be needed to switch from a C4 to a (manual) Toploader.

Can anyone here help me out by listing some of the parts that will be necessary? Linkages, etc. Also, where can I find them... new/used?

What about modifications to the car itself... will I have to modify the opening in the trans tunnel for the shifter?

Are there any pros/cons to this swap that people can chime in on? I definitely would prefer to get a manual in this car.

Thanks!
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
What about modifications to the car itself... will I have to modify the opening in the trans tunnel for the shifter?
No, the tunnel opening will be fine, but the least of your headaches.

The biggest obstacle with the swap is the clutch pedal.... or lack thereof in your case. You'll need to source the correct pedal/hanger and all the factory (Zbar) clutch linkage. You can use a cable/hydraulic clutch and sidestep the mechanical linkage, but will have to make some modifications in order to do so.

Driveshaft length is uneffected.

Speedo is uneffected.

Crossmember? Can't remember.....

Are you getting the shifter/shifter linkage as part of the swap? Try to....
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply, Dave.

I'll have to check to see if the shifter is part of the deal, but I seem to remember that it was.

Can I find the clutch pedal + linkage new in catalogs to make sure that everything is free of flaws? Or do I have to start looking for used pieces.
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Can I find the clutch pedal + linkage new in catalogs to make sure that everything is free of flaws? Or do I have to start looking for used pieces.
All of the pieces you require should be available in reproduction.

Does the 302 block have the boss tapped into it for the Zbar linkage pivot? What did the 302 block come out of?
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Old 11-12-2008, 05:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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[quote=DaveSanborn]
Quote:
....Crossmember? Can't remember.....
....
My '65 was unaffected. Don't know about '68.
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Old 11-12-2008, 05:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSanborn
Does the 302 block have the boss tapped into it for the Zbar linkage pivot? What did the 302 block come out of?
Good question, I'll find that out when I go to pick up the engine...

But I do know that the setup is straight out of a 1968 fastback, so it seems like there shouldn't be any issues.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The C4 crossmember will be okay. Don't forget the toploader bellhousing, flywheel, blockplate, speedo cable and backup light harness.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks, I will be getting the bell housing, pressure plate, a brand new clutch, and... a leakage plate (?) in the deal.

I'm assuming that this leakage plate is the block plate?
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
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If your car is to be a track-only car, then I would say to install the Top-Loader 4-speed.

If it is going to be driven on the street/highway at all, I would suggest skipping the non-overdriven 4-speed and install a manual overdrive transmission.

I have a wide ratio Top-Loader 4-spd. that used to be in my '68 Mustang and later on in the '66 fastback I had for a good while. However, unless I was going to build a track car, I seriously doubt I will ever use the Top-Loader again. --Once you go overdrive on the street, you don't go back.

The Top-Loaders are very valuable these days, so if it's at a reasonable price, you could purchase it and then turn around a sell it to get something like a Z-spec. manual T-5.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ultrastang, why is it that the toploader isn't a good match for the street?

Are other non-OD transmissions more street-friendly?

I'm used to non-OD transmissions as I've driven this coupe with the C4 and my old '67 with a C4 as well. The car will be primarily a cruiser with a very rare drive to work, so it really won't get all that much time on the freeways.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I believe what he's trying to say is if you're going to go through all of the trouble to convert the car from an automatic to manual, you'd probably be better off going with a 5 spd manual trans for the 5th gear overdrive.

While the toploader will be a welcome change for you and make the car "fun" to drive, the T5 would accomplish the same thing... and give you an overdrive gear for the same amount of money.
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I agree with that.. a 5 sp will be much better for a street car. but I think the swap is just a little more costly. you should be able to get a complete kit from RonMorris.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If the 302 was matched to the top loader you should still check that the pilot bushing is good. If you do go to T5 then you will have to get one to match that input shaft. Also are you using headers the stock Z-bar dosen't alway work well with headers. I had to purchase the HIPO version to get past the headers. You can use a Hurst Competition shifter and linkage. It will fit in the stock hole no problem just need the correct part # for a Mustang. They also have a reverse light switch that mounts to the linkage I think the yoke should fit the output shaft someone correct me if I am wrong. There is a hole in the firewall aready there to be knocked out for the push rod from the pedal to the Z-bar. And of coarse the new brake and clutch pedal asembly.

Good luck and enjoy!
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Put a 5 speed in there. I put one in and I have no regrets.

You can get a the bellhousing out of the junkyards in Wilmington if you don't mind getting dirty.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSanborn
I believe what he's trying to say is if you're going to go through all of the trouble to convert the car from an automatic to manual, you'd probably be better off going with a 5 spd manual trans for the 5th gear overdrive.

While the toploader will be a welcome change for you and make the car "fun" to drive, the T5 would accomplish the same thing... and give you an overdrive gear for the same amount of money.
Exactly what Dave said.

If going to the trouble to install a manual, go with one that will get you the best of both worlds with performance and low highway RPMs --one with an overdrive.

Obviously, it takes a few more parts and effort to install the overdrive, but it's
well worth the time and effort once it's done.

The Top-Loader is 1:1 in high gear (4th), with a 2.78:1 1st gear in the wide ratio versions and 2.32:1 in 1st in the close ratio versions.

The T-5s from the 5.0L GT Mustangs are .68:1 in 5th, with a 3.35:1 in 1st. The Z-spec Cobra T-5s are .62:1 in 5th, with a 2.95:1 in 1st gear.

The overdrive will allow you to run a low rear end gear ratio for off-the-line performance [just like the Top-Loader], but without the high RPM penalty at highway speeds like you would get from a transmission that is 1:1 in high gear. Cruising RPMs will be significantly lower with the overdrive.

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