AOD Warning

[Crash]

I put a "professionally built" (Performance Automatic Transmission Co) AOD in my car. I read and read and re-read about setting the TV cable. I bought all the right hardware and "swear" I set it correctly.

At first, the car shifted immediately into third. I tightened the cable and things got a little better. I tightened it some more and got it "about right".

After a short highway trip (50 miles round trip), I no longer had fourth gear. Throttle downshifts (passing maneuver) were hesitant and slow - not quick and firm. By the time I got home, no more fourth gear.

Tranny guy says the fourth gear band is wiped out. The governor is also sticking. Erratic shifts are probably caused by trash from the band.

He says I need to take it out and let him replace the band, and possibly the drum, and get the trash out of it and also take care of the governor. I'm looking at about $300 or more plus the trouble of R&R the tranny.

Bottom line is, he thinks it was all caused by an improperly adjusted TV cable.

I have a hard time swallowing that, given the research I did and the care with which I test drove it, etc. But, who am I to argue with the experts?

It didn't seem reasonable for a builder to have to trailer their car to a tranny shop for the initial setup. But, it looks like unless you can get a pro to make a house call, you have to do that.

I had my doubts about this PATCO tranny from the beginning, but I can't prove that it was bad.

So, the warning is - if you decide to go with an AOD, and you decide to try to set the TV yourself, there's a good chance you'll have to pay to ge the trans re-fixed later. I guess a secondary warning is to stay away from PATCO...

[dodgestang]

They got another one.

I bought one of their pieces of garbage several years ago.

Funny that the first problem I had was a bad governor valve, quickly followed by all the clutches and bands, and then followed by all the hard parts. You should have done a search here first for Dominator and you probably could have saved yourself the headaches. The best advice I can offer is bite the bullet and buy something else or take everything you have to another shop and have them replace all the soft parts AND change the valve body. They use a 'custom' valve body and that was tracked down to the be the culprit that allowed a delay in the 2-3 shift which results in resplining 3rd gear.

[HoosierBuddy]

Can I interest you boys in a pew at the Church of the 4R70-W?

Phil

[gotstang]

Ouch, that sucks! Having watched a few Chevy 700R4's die from a misadjusted TV cable, I know how fast it can happen, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Double ouch at PATC, they do not seem to be the most wonderful place out there, and you wouldn't be the first person to have a bad experience with one of their units. Have you tried talking to PATC about the whole ordeal? I wonder what they would say?

[dodgestang]

Originally Posted by HoosierBuddy

Can I interest you boys in a pew at the Church of the 4R70-W?

Phil

No, I'm good the trans has been putting up with abuse for some time now...although now that I said something it will break for sure. Especially since I essentially have a 4r70-w just without the electronic control.

[yelostang]

I put a Lentech street cruiser in my 68 cvt when installing an "engine"!! NEVER got the chance to run it as the engine had seized. So removed it when changing engine and decided to put a C-4 in. Glad I did. Heard so many tales of woe about them that decided NOT to use it. Figuring out my type of driving, All the dialing in with lokars, vacum guages, etc. was not worth it. Am sure there are as many people who have had good results and a person here has probably gone about 85,000 miles on one by now. Why I considered it, seeing as about 5000 miles per annum is average, can be chalked up to poor judgement on my part.

[2ndGen]

Hmm...

Not meaning to pick on the original poster, nor do I doubt the PA stories (of which there are several), but it really sounds like the TV cable was not set with a pressure gauge on the test port. There are many "instructions" out there that don't even mention the test port and pressure gauge, however the Ford and ATSG manuals are quite specific about this.

To me, this is akin to setting the timing without a timing light... sure, you can get it in the ball park, but if you are off a little bit detonation can ruin your motor (although probably not as quickly as the TV setting can ruin your transmission). And like a timing light, a pressure guage is about $50... not a major investment. And it can come in handy for several other purposes (compression test, oil pressure verification).

Yes, AODs have weak points. Yes, a 4R70W addresses most of them (I, like Nick used complete 4R70W internals on my AOD; only the input shaft, output shaft, and first drum are AOD parts, and the input shaft was hardened). But a properly built and adjusted AOD is pretty nice!

The "shifted immediately into third, then I tightened the cable some more" spells trouble in my book.

Good luck,
-Rory

[gwstang]

On the Ford assembly line, they did not use gauges etc to set the tv cable. All they did was pull the dang thing and pop it in...it was in a "neutral" with no force on it" setting. I have rebuilt 2 aod's with the badshoe production guys video. He does an excellent job of explaining this is all they did. The first one is still running great and the 2nd is in the 66 getting ready to run. I think his tranny was junk to begin with and probably had subpar stuff in it. I suspect if this company is so untrustworthy that they just use left over stuff anyway to cut costs.

The "shifted immediately into third, then I tightened the cable some more" spells trouble in my book.

This is how to adjust the shift points, only there is just a little bit of play either way to do this. Can't get crazy with it...lol.

[Crash]

The whole point of my post was to emphasize the importance of setting the TV properly. PATCO's customer assistance has sucked royally, though.

Maybe I got the TV cable wrong, maybe I didn't. I didn't drive it two blocks before making "adjustments", though, so I doubt I did any damage before getting it at least closer to correct.

Dodgestang had similar problems as I did. But they were resolved with a "proper" build. His story makes me feel better, but I accept that this still could be my fault.

In one video I saw, which was done by a pro, it said there's a bit of hype about setting the TV. It boils down to "no slack, but not tight, either. Simple as that." My tranny guy said the same thing. I set mine that way, then tightened it progressively until I got some semblance of proper shifting. The tranny never saw fourth gear until I was done adjusting it on trips around the block.

I think I got a bad tranny. Maybe I didn't have the cable set right and that exacerbated the problem. All I know is I'm out two grand plus whatever it's gonna cost to get it fixed. My tranny guy thinks that the problem was caused by improper TV setting, but he doesn't know about what happened to Dodgestang.

I have no reason to believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with going with an AOD. Ford put countless thousands into service with little trouble, I'm sure. One built with all the good parts and upgrades should perform just fine and be quite reliable. I don't want to discourage anyone from putting an AOD into their Mustang. I just want them to get a good one and have a pro set the TV for them.

I chose the AOD over the 4R-70W for several reasons:

1) Simplicity. I did not want to mess with a separate controller and programming and packaging and wiring.

2) Cost. The AOD route is far cheaper (if you do it right).

3) Gear ratios. With my engine, I did not want the wide ratio set that comes in the 4R-70W. With my 3.8x rear gear, the wide ratio would be inappropriate.

Oh, one last thing. I tried to send the tranny back to PATCO (it was still in the crate) after hearing of Dodgestang's experience, but they refused to take it. They just promised to "make it right" if there was a problem. Yeah, right.

[gwstang]

There is a new valve body on summitracing.com that is a constant pressure vb, if you decide to rebuild. That is the best way to go, as the tv cable is only for shift points then, the vb keeps constant pressure on the correct items so it won't burn up. Only around $200 or so and could be well worth it.

[2ndGen]

Originally Posted by gwstang

On the Ford assembly line, they did not use gauges etc to set the tv cable. All they did was pull the dang thing and pop it in...it was in a "neutral" with no force on it" setting.

On the Ford assembly line, they were dealing with brackets and cables specifically designed for a particular carburator/throttle body, and manufactured within specified tolerances. The geometry of the linkage was also specifically designed...

We are talking about retrofitting a transmission using an assemblage of parts that vary from one installation to another. Assuming you have the correct linkage geometry, then yes, you can get reasonably close with a "tight but not too tight" and "full movement at full throttle".

Another analogy: they didn't check bearing clearances with plastigauge, balance components, or degree in camshafts on the assembly line. Great, but don't blame me for recommending them...

I guess the real points I was/am trying to make are:

1) It is well known that an improperly set TV cable can fry an AOD in short order.

2) The only way to verify that your TV cable is set correctly is to use the test port and a pressure gauge.

3) A pressure gauge is not expensive, exotic, or good only for this purpose.

4) You do not have to have an expert do this.

Originally Posted by gwstang

This is how to adjust the shift points, only there is just a little bit of play either way to do this. Can't get crazy with it...lol.

In a word: No. The AOD shift points are adjusted by the governor (different valve weights) or by reprogramming the valve body. The TV cable is for adjusting line pressure. Incorrect line pressure can cause slipping, which appears to alter shift points.

I can't comment on PA directly, others have personal experience. I wish the original poster luck, agree with his position that TV adjustment is critical, and hope his transmission is fixed to his satisfaction.

A couple of side notes:

1) I run 3.70's with the wide ratio... and consider it quite fun. This puts the final drive ratio at just about 10:1 in first - ideal for acceleration.

2) There is a bit of controversy over the constant pressure valve bodies... I would personally wait a while before recommending them. TCI had a recall on theirs, and it does put more strain on the pump and various other components.

Good luck,
-Rory

[JonK]

Hmmm, I'm about to install my PATC AOD that I bought second hand uninstalled, now I'm debating just taking it to a local trans shop and having them tear it down/verify that carbonfiber bands, etc. were used and that there isn't any trash in it. Wonder what that'll cost me?

I paid <$750 for the trans. a year ago so I guess a well shifting stock one would go for near that.
I also want to make sure if I manually shift it that it'll shift 1-2-3 and not 1-3 as I've heard they will do stock?

I was going to pick up a gauge to do the adjustment myself but if I have a shop tear through it first I'll pay the $50 towing and have them adjust it also for piece of mind and maybe some type of guarantee...
Thoughts?
Jon

[gwstang]

We are talking about retrofitting a transmission using an assemblage of parts that vary from one installation to another. Assuming you have the correct linkage geometry, then yes, you can get reasonably close with a "tight but not too tight" and "full movement at full throttle".

You make some very good points here. I am going to use a pressure gauge on mine before driving it. Did not know about the recall on the valve bodies. Thanks, gary.

[2ndGen]

Originally Posted by JonK

Hmmm, I'm about to install my PATC AOD that I bought second hand uninstalled, now I'm debating just taking it to a local trans shop and having them tear it down/verify that carbonfiber bands, etc. were used and that there isn't any trash in it. Wonder what that'll cost me?

I paid <$750 for the trans. a year ago so I guess a well shifting stock one would go for near that.
I also want to make sure if I manually shift it that it'll shift 1-2-3 and not 1-3 as I've heard they will do stock?

I was going to pick up a gauge to do the adjustment myself but if I have a shop tear through it first I'll pay the $50 towing and have them adjust it also for piece of mind and maybe some type of guarantee...
Thoughts?
Jon

Hmm... time=money... there would be little difference in time between a full teardown/inspection and a full rebuild. The actual parts cost of rebuilding a transmission is only a couple hundred dollars. My guess is that it would be fairly expensive to have this done. And unless a shop has gone through everything, I can't see them guaranteeing anything.

My personal opinion: if it truely is uninstalled, I would install it and carefully set the TV cable myself. If it has been run before, I would at least drop the pan, look for debris in the fluid, and put a new filter/fluid in.

I am not trying to defend any company, but I have a hard time believing that any company could stay in business if everything they sent out the door was broken. Nick paid for a transmission that could stand up to his engine and it did not. But Nick has a pretty substantial engine... Even though his transmission did not live up to its advertising, someone with a milder engine may not have experienced his failure... How extreme is your engine?

Just to be clear, when manually shifting the pattern is 1-D-OD. You can hold 2nd with a stock valve body by doing the shuffle of 1-D-1... when you shift to D and the transmission goes to 2nd, dropping the shifter back to 1 will not downshift and will hold 2nd until you shift back to D. There are several different valve mods, if you are not familiar with what to look for it may not be obvious if your valve body has 1-2-OD. The only way to get a 1-2-3 valve body is with a solenoid and a manual switch for OD.

Just for completeness, extended operation at wide open throttle is not recommended in OD.

Finally, I too rebuild my own transmissions. I am not an expert nor a professional. This is not beyond the capabilities of a reasonably clean, organized, and mechanically inclined hobbiest. The only "special" tools I use are seal protectors ($100), good snap ring pliers ($25), a dial indicator ($50), large C clamps (2 x $8)and a pressure gauge($35). This assumes you have torque wrenches, sockets, and access to compressed air for bench checks.

Good luck,
-Rory

[gwstang]

access to compressed air for bench checks.

The first time I did an air check on one...I forgot to turn the compressor psi way down. Whoops, I blew that big retaining ring completely off...lol. Scared the dog out of me too.