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Old 01-12-2012, 11:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default My 306 build

Need a little help with my engine combo. I bought a used 306 gt40 crate motor w/o heads(originally had aluminum x heads). It has an e303 cam. Since it had no heads, I bought some afr 185's and comp 1.7 roller rockers. I have an edelbrock performer intake and a 650 holley. I'm open to changing the intake and carb if i have to but i'd like to keep everything else. (I know i need to measure for pushrods) WIll this combo work? I'm hearing that 165's might have been better but it's too late for that now. Unless the 185's just are not going to work at all. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Just make sure you check the piston to valve clearance, You should be ok. change the intake to the Air gap, RPM or stealth and have it port matched to your heads.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacnac View Post
Need a little help with my engine combo. I bought a used 306 gt40 crate motor w/o heads(originally had aluminum x heads). It has an e303 cam. Since it had no heads, I bought some afr 185's and comp 1.7 roller rockers. I have an edelbrock performer intake and a 650 holley. I'm open to changing the intake and carb if i have to but i'd like to keep everything else. (I know i need to measure for pushrods) WIll this combo work? I'm hearing that 165's might have been better but it's too late for that now. Unless the 185's just are not going to work at all. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks
Hi,
Yes, it will work. To what degree for it's "best performance", is questionable. This is not to suggest it won't work at all, just no to it's best potential.
Now, If you stroke to a 331 (333 w/your.040) and up the CR to 10.0, add a Performer RPM, you'll "greatly" improves it's potential. With those 185 heads on a smaller breathing 306, you're going to be sacrificing torque potential, which is what you feel in your butt and want in a decent street warrior. I'm only running 170 TW heads, a 10.6 CR, and a nice cam in my 333, and it's making 392 RWHP @ 6100, or so, with 400 RWTQ at 4200.
I realize this is after-the-fact. But, with more research, you would have purchased differently.
Good Luck in sorting it out.
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64 1/2 Poppy Red too!, Cvt. Resto-Mod
333 Cu.in. T5z, 3:55, Dual 40 mm DCOE Webers
Performer RPM, CI cam, TFS/TWs, Tri-Ys, Discs w/Shelby Drums
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Here's an example of a 306 with AFR 185 heads:
Single Plane Or Dual Plane Intake Upgrade - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine

They test the Performer RPM Air Gap vs. the Victor Jr.

Ken, are you running the as-cast 170cc or one of the CNC versions? Thanks.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Twisted Wedge 170's are actually very close in cross section size to the AFR 185's. The Twisted Wedge heads have an altered valve pattern that rotates the intake valve towards the center of the cylinder, away from the cylinder wall. This shortens the intake port, so it takes a larger opening in a twisted wedge head to reach the same number of cc's of an inline head like the AFR. So a 170cc twisted wedge is comparible to an AFR 185, a 185cc twisted wedge is comparible to an AFR 205 and a 205cc twisted wedge is comparable to an AFR 225.

Personally, I think that your head sizing is just fine for that engine. I might have went with a twisted wedge 170 instead just because I think they are a better head on top of being less expensive, but the AFR 185 will still make a lot of steam. I would definitely upgrade the intake to either an Edelbrock RPM or RPM Airgap. What is the Holley carb? Is it a 650 double pumper or something else?
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That mm&ff story was perfect. They used a 750, isnt that too much carb for a 306?
Im ok w/changing the intake and carb and may go with a holley ultra hp (650) and a dual plane of some sort. It's not going to be a strip car, just a driver.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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PTV clearance may be an issue. With those heads, that cam and 1.7 rockers it may require piston modification if they are not 2.02 flycut pistons to start with. Make sure you check clearance.

Also look into a custom grind cam. Much magic can be worked with ramp rates on a roller cam motor.

Jafo

Last edited by Jafo74; 01-13-2012 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub View Post
Here's an example of a 306 with AFR 185 heads:
Single Plane Or Dual Plane Intake Upgrade - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine

They test the Performer RPM Air Gap vs. the Victor Jr.

Ken, are you running the as-cast 170cc or one of the CNC versions? Thanks.

Hi,
"Ken, are you running the as-cast 170cc or one of the CNC versions? Thanks"

I'm running the "as-cast" with a little bowl clean-up. The spring work/valve train has been tweaked to better support a custom cam. It's all roller, as well. My lift is 570/562. To protect against P/V issues, I'm running Probe brand dual relief pistons suited for TWs.
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64 1/2 Poppy Red too!, Cvt. Resto-Mod
333 Cu.in. T5z, 3:55, Dual 40 mm DCOE Webers
Performer RPM, CI cam, TFS/TWs, Tri-Ys, Discs w/Shelby Drums
Severna Park, MD
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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so i think i'm going to go with an air gap and a holley ultra hp 650 (hard anodized gray/black). And the ptv clearance thing i will def. be checking. Im hoping im good there w/the 1.7's. I dont want to buy more rockers. The cam has less than .500 lift, thats why i went with the 1.7's.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacnac View Post
so i think i'm going to go with an air gap and a holley ultra hp 650 (hard anodized gray/black). And the ptv clearance thing i will def. be checking. Im hoping im good there w/the 1.7's. I dont want to buy more rockers. The cam has less than .500 lift, thats why i went with the 1.7's.
OK, looks like you'll be at 510 with the 1.7s. Hopefully that 650 won't be too big. I ran a 600 on 331 for awhile with Windsor JRs (1.90/1.60) and the AFR was very good at WOT. Of course, it took 3 months of road testing to get it that way. While you're at it, you might consider having O2 sensor bungs welded into the collectors, if running headers. This will provide an opportunity to check your AFR.
Good luck!
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64 1/2 Poppy Red too!, Cvt. Resto-Mod
333 Cu.in. T5z, 3:55, Dual 40 mm DCOE Webers
Performer RPM, CI cam, TFS/TWs, Tri-Ys, Discs w/Shelby Drums
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenash View Post
Hi,
"Ken, are you running the as-cast 170cc or one of the CNC versions? Thanks"

I'm running the "as-cast" with a little bowl clean-up. The spring work/valve train has been tweaked to better support a custom cam. It's all roller, as well. My lift is 570/562. To protect against P/V issues, I'm running Probe brand dual relief pistons suited for TWs.
You've got me pretty interested in your build. Is your cam custom ground? What are the duration specs?
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You've got me pretty interested in your build. Is your cam custom ground? What are the duration specs?
Hi
Duration at .050 > 220.06/234.24
gross lift 570/562
Lobe sep. 113.13
and uses the 351 F/O
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64 1/2 Poppy Red too!, Cvt. Resto-Mod
333 Cu.in. T5z, 3:55, Dual 40 mm DCOE Webers
Performer RPM, CI cam, TFS/TWs, Tri-Ys, Discs w/Shelby Drums
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Sorry, what is "F/O"?

EDIT:
Oh, firing order?
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub View Post
Sorry, what is "F/O"?

EDIT:
Oh, firing order?
Yes, sorry.
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64 1/2 Poppy Red too!, Cvt. Resto-Mod
333 Cu.in. T5z, 3:55, Dual 40 mm DCOE Webers
Performer RPM, CI cam, TFS/TWs, Tri-Ys, Discs w/Shelby Drums
Severna Park, MD
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:31 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I havent bought the carb yet (i have an old holley 650 that i may try before i buy a new one) and ive seen everything from 600's to 750's on 302's. I can't seem to get a consensus on size.
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