when is a MSD dizzy / box necessary ??? - Vintage Mustang Forums
Vintage Mustang Forum
HomeForumGalleryClassifiedsAbout UsAdvertiseContact Us
» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Go Back   Vintage Mustang Forums > General Discussion > Mod and Custom Forum
Vintage-Mustang.com is the premier Ford Mustang Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-23-2012, 03:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
68_GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,606
Default when is a MSD dizzy / box necessary ???

my 347 short block is assembled so I need to figure out some details quick.

My current 302 has a regular ole distributor with a Pertornix I module with a Flame Thrower coil, 7mm wires and Autolite copper plugs. It's always worked great.

My engine builder suggested a new MSD dizzy and 6AL (?) MSD box for the 347.

Just wanted you guys opinions on it all.

He says a bronze dizzy gear is no longer necessary on the Comp roller cams too.. It's his custom grind on a Comp cam. He says that info cam from Comp.
__________________
Ford True Blue paint, 17X8 Edelbrock 454 wheels, waiting to install AOD/2,800 rpm stall / 8.8 rear with 373 gears / 4 wheel disc brakes. / Xpipe, Dynomax Ultraflows . More pictures here-->http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-few-pics.html
2013 SHO Performance Package tuned by Livernois Motorsports
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...68stangsig.jpg
68_GT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-23-2012, 08:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buckeyedemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2,139
Default

you don't want a bronze gear in a street car.

an MSD distributor is easy to make adjustments in terms of limiting the amount of mechanical advance as well as controlling the rate of advance as compared to a factory distributor.
__________________
69 Mach 1 Build

buckeyedemon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2012, 09:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
sportsroof69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Somewhere down in Texas
Posts: 2,815
Default

If its a 1050 core cam, which most OTS cams are, a steel gear is fine. If you happen to get an 8620 core cam, it will still require a bronze gear. Be sure to verify what you have from the manufacturer, and make no assumptions.
__________________
6.12@112 MPH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdbsyzBrJhg&sns=em
sportsroof69 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2012, 10:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the road
Posts: 5,009
Default

when I changed to an msd ready-to-run distributor the following changes occurred:
1) car was easier starting
2) better gas mileage, + 3 mpg.
3) easier to tune when I made other changes ( added vintage Paxton, changed carbs. etc)

several years later I added a msd box, the digital 6, which I would recommend over the 6AL box. The addition of the box yielded:

1) wayyyy easier starting in hot weather. The digital 6+ box has a 20 degree start retard feature. It is incredible how much faster the engine spins with that much ignition retard for starting, maybe 2 or 3 times faster.
2) Hotter spark, or multiple sparks maybe, whatever the cause, now the engine was burning fuel more completely. The rpm at idle picked up considerably.
3) gained another +4 mpg, for a total of 7 mpg over the stock ignition system (Both systems were mechanical advance only). With a vacuum advance distributor, there should be even better results.

The above results were overshadowed by the great reliability of the msd products. In comparison my experiences were Pertronix were disappointing. Obviously, others have not had the same failure rate that I did with Pertronix (two units, a I and a II). I used them on two different cars, both failed within six months.

Z.
__________________
'65 HiPo fastback

Last edited by zray; 08-23-2012 at 10:13 PM.
zray is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2012, 10:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
cmefly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
Posts: 2,677
Default

Mallory makes a HY fire 6al box that is less expensive then MSD around $159 with the rev limiter and has a nice Dist. for less money.
cmefly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2012, 10:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
68_GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,606
Default

what are the exact parts I'd need then ?

how to I verify the cam core ? Is is on the cam ?, or does the cam card tell
35-000-8

so I can get a ready to run distributor with vaccum advance and use it with my flame thrower coil, and add a ignition box later on instead of the coil

do they all have mechanicl vacuum spark advance ?

I'm going to have my engine tuned on an engine dyno so what would be the best thing to have for the tuner ?
__________________
Ford True Blue paint, 17X8 Edelbrock 454 wheels, waiting to install AOD/2,800 rpm stall / 8.8 rear with 373 gears / 4 wheel disc brakes. / Xpipe, Dynomax Ultraflows . More pictures here-->http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-few-pics.html
2013 SHO Performance Package tuned by Livernois Motorsports
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...68stangsig.jpg

Last edited by 68_GT; 08-23-2012 at 11:00 PM.
68_GT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2012, 10:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
68_GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmefly View Post
Mallory makes a HY fire 6al box that is less expensive then MSD around $159 with the rev limiter and has a nice Dist. for less money.
oh cool do you run those parts are they good reliable parts ?
__________________
Ford True Blue paint, 17X8 Edelbrock 454 wheels, waiting to install AOD/2,800 rpm stall / 8.8 rear with 373 gears / 4 wheel disc brakes. / Xpipe, Dynomax Ultraflows . More pictures here-->http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-few-pics.html
2013 SHO Performance Package tuned by Livernois Motorsports
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...68stangsig.jpg
68_GT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2012, 10:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
sportsroof69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Somewhere down in Texas
Posts: 2,815
Default

Ask the manucturer. An 8620 will be copper coated, but you should still call and ask. That's why they have tech lines.
__________________
6.12@112 MPH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdbsyzBrJhg&sns=em
sportsroof69 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2012, 12:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the road
Posts: 5,009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68_GT View Post
what are the exact parts I'd need then ?........"
MSD ready to run dist.: steel gear: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-83521/

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68_GT View Post
".....so I can get a ready to run distributor with vaccum advance and use it with my flame thrower coil, and add a ignition box later on instead of the coil ........"
whatever coil you have that will work with the ready to run, will also work with the box. Adding an msd box does not eliminate the coil. But there are msd coils that are better suited to the msd boxes than the Flamethrower coil.

also you might consider getting a black dist cap from msd as well. They look better on Fords than the red cap that they ship with.

Z.
__________________
'65 HiPo fastback
zray is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2012, 07:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
66resto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 2,253
Default

I played the safe route, went with a composite gear. Little more money, but a little more peace of mind. I mean a cam with stripped cam gears doesn't do you much good and I don't want to have to tear it back down again b/c I didn't spend an extra $50.

When you order, be sure to get the right diameter...more than one size shaft.
__________________
1968 Fastback: 331 stroker, FTI cam, N351 Heads with a few upgrades, 4r70w w/3600 stall, 9" locker w/3.70 gears
66resto is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2012, 07:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
cmefly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
Posts: 2,677
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68_GT View Post
oh cool do you run those parts are they good reliable parts ?
Yes , I do run those parts. just as good as MSD for less money.
cmefly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2012, 10:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
68_GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,606
Default

so I can run just the ready to run distributor with a MSD coil and add the MSD box later on ? what's the main advantage of adding the MSD box then ?
__________________
Ford True Blue paint, 17X8 Edelbrock 454 wheels, waiting to install AOD/2,800 rpm stall / 8.8 rear with 373 gears / 4 wheel disc brakes. / Xpipe, Dynomax Ultraflows . More pictures here-->http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-few-pics.html
2013 SHO Performance Package tuned by Livernois Motorsports
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...68stangsig.jpg
68_GT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2012, 10:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
68_GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,606
Default

is MSD in El Paso TX ?

Funny I'm flying out there for 3 days next week....
__________________
Ford True Blue paint, 17X8 Edelbrock 454 wheels, waiting to install AOD/2,800 rpm stall / 8.8 rear with 373 gears / 4 wheel disc brakes. / Xpipe, Dynomax Ultraflows . More pictures here-->http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-few-pics.html
2013 SHO Performance Package tuned by Livernois Motorsports
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...68stangsig.jpg
68_GT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-13-2012, 09:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
68_GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,606
Default

how does the MSD box control the amount of timing if the distributer has a vaccum advance ?

do the MSD distributers have to be recurved to get them dialed in or tuned perfectly or is that done with the MSD box ?

I'm going to get ignition parts for my 347 for Christmas. My engine builder quoted me the following for MSD parts:

$479 for wires, blaster coil and distributer
$219 for digital 6 box.

after I get the right parts together I'm taking the engine to an engine dyno for engine break in and tuning so I can put it in. I want it to be fully tunable for the tuner and not leave any power and driveability on the table.

how necessary is the MSD box ? are they reliable I have heard of them crapping out recently leaving people stranded. If that happens can you not just drive with the MSD box unplugged ?
__________________
Ford True Blue paint, 17X8 Edelbrock 454 wheels, waiting to install AOD/2,800 rpm stall / 8.8 rear with 373 gears / 4 wheel disc brakes. / Xpipe, Dynomax Ultraflows . More pictures here-->http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-few-pics.html
2013 SHO Performance Package tuned by Livernois Motorsports
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...68stangsig.jpg
68_GT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-13-2012, 10:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the road
Posts: 5,009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68_GT View Post
how does the MSD box control the amount of timing if the distributer has a vacuum advance ?

do the MSD distributers have to be recurved to get them dialed in or tuned perfectly or is that done with the MSD box ?

I'm going to get ignition parts for my 347 for Christmas. My engine builder quoted me the following for MSD parts:

$479 for wires, blaster coil and distributer
$219 for digital 6 box.

after I get the right parts together I'm taking the engine to an engine dyno for engine break in and tuning so I can put it in. I want it to be fully tunable for the tuner and not leave any power and drivability on the table.

how necessary is the MSD box ? are they reliable I have heard of them crapping out recently leaving people stranded. If that happens can you not just drive with the MSD box unplugged ?
call msd tech to answer the first question. may take an engineering degree to explain and understand the answer.

the price for the digital 6+ box seems low. made sure it is new.

the msd dist. has more adjustability than you will need short of a NASCAR track car scenario.


Z.
__________________
'65 HiPo fastback
zray is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.