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Old 12-13-2012, 02:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Got the steering box out in one piece, had to jack up the engine about 3-4" on the drivers side, and remove the engine and frame mount. (not sure if it could be done if the headers were installed...) Still had to tap it with a mallet to get it through. Yikes. Another alternative that would be pretty easy in my opinion: Take the steering box apart before trying to snake it through! It's one large lock nut (like 3.5" or something) that you can unlock with a punch and a hammer, then the bearing nut unscrews and the steering shaft can be pulled towards the rear of the car. Once its apart, it should fit back through past any engine, mounts, etc as two pieces (shaft and box).
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Ok, so I am working on the bumpsteer calculations regarding the height I should mount my rack, and am a little confused.

When the car is normally loaded, I have the correct placement for the rack, however when the car goes over bumps (2" up or 2" down) the placement changes. Ie, the inner tie rod ends I calculated at :

2" Compression-->13.24" from the ground
Stock-->12.81" From the ground
2" Extension-->12.35" From the ground

Should I just mount it at 12.81" and check my bumpsteer from there? I was hoping to get really close just by running some numbers.

If anyone wants to look at my bumpsteer excel sheet, let me know. It uses all the x and y measurements for your control arm pivots to determine the instant center of rotation and then based on a fixed outer tie rod placement determines the necessary inner tie rod location.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:24 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I was just throwing away junkyard notes, when I saw the only other possibility I measured that day besides my GrandAm rack, the 91 Caddy which had a 27" tie rod to tie rod dimension and 6" of travel. I think I took the Pontiac unit because the TR's were closer together at 25.5".
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Do yourself a favor. Buy this book from Amazon and read up on converting drag link to rack before you touch anything.

http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Car-Setup-Secrets-HP1401/dp/1557884013/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358098036&sr=8-2&keywords=bob+bolles
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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yellowoct-- good taste in cars LOL i have 2 of the same

76 280z- made into a vert and ford 5.0.. i was/am Scca on hybridz just dont login there much anymore.. i developed the original 240sx conversion for 5 lug rears..

and my 64.5 ..

[img]www.berrydude.com/displayimage.php?pid=28&fullsize=1[/img]

cant get link to load automatically maybe because its PHP? with http in front didnt help so gave up on the code

http://www.berrydude.com/displayimag...=28&fullsize=1
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Do yourself a favor. Buy this book from Amazon and read up on converting drag link to rack before you touch anything.

Amazon.com: Stock Car Setup Secrets HP1401 (9781557884015): Bob Bolles: Books Amazon.com: Stock Car Setup Secrets HP1401 (9781557884015): Bob Bolles: Books
Lol, did you see the Amazon used price for this one? $399!! I'll have to keep my eyes peeled on evilbay and elsewhere on the net. Thanks Tom
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yellowoct-- good taste in cars LOL i have 2 of the same
I see three cars going hand in hand repeatedly; Mustangs, Z's and Jeeps (esp Cherokees).
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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YellowOctapus, here's a place for the Stock Car book. It's pretty amazing the book originally sold for $20 and is now selling for over $500 used.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Damn you Amazon! Their book preview goes to page 34. Guess what page the steering systems preview starts on?
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:21 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The jest of the article is this. On a drag link system, the linkage basically forms a paralellogram and as you turn the steering wheel, both spindles turn at the same rate. The angle of the tie rod arms determine Ackerman wich basically is toe change. A R&P system, the tie rod arms are at different angles compared to a drag link system. The linkage on each side forms a triangle between the ball joint, tie rod end and the point where it connects to the rack. Now, if I call the BJ point A, and the tie rod, B, and the rack C. Try to follow a little confusing. Lets say I turn the wheels all the way to the right, the angle at B is going to be accute which means the imaginary line between points A&C is one dimension. As I turn the steering wheel all the way to the left, this same angle a B now becomes obtuse and the distance between A&C become even greater which increase toe. Now you can say the right side cancels the left side out, not quite because as it was said the angle of the tie rod arms are set for a drag link system with adds another element

On a R&P system the rack needs to be located as close to the centerline of the front axle as possible and as is mention in the book, the angles of the tie rod arms on the spindles are different. This all work to keep toe changes with in limits. Done wrong on a conversion, you're going to end up with bad bumpsteer. There was a guy here years back who did his own conversion with a J car rack. He had a ton of toe change when he checked. Just saying do your home work!
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:53 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
On a R&P system the rack needs to be located as close to the centerline of the front axle as possible and as is mention in the book, the angles of the tie rod arms on the spindles are different. This all work to keep toe changes with in limits.
Do you mean the rack should be located as close as possible to the centerline of the outer tie rods? I've never seen a stock rack that was located near the centerline of the front axle.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:33 AM   #26 (permalink)
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so where does a Pinto R & P set with power fit in ? I bot it for my 67 coupe now the coupe is going to the junkyard .. dont need it anymore ..
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:02 PM   #27 (permalink)
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So, I've SLOWLY been working on this RnP development work, the biggest thing I saw a problem with was the fact that the Grand Am (or Grand Prix...I'm having my doubts about it being a Grand Am now...damn my memory) inner tie rods were so long they stuck out past the spindle and touched the tires. So, I cut them down, threaded the ITR's, and made a double threaded sleeve to fit inside the 70 Ranchero tie rod end adjusters I've got. (FYI, I have 70 Ranchero front disc spindles installed.)

For the sleeves, I cut off the Pontiac OTR and threaded that. (It's a weird thread too, like 11/16x18LH or something? I didn't even show an 11/16 straight thread on my drill/tap chart, so I had to just keep taking off .005" at a time until it would thread on.) I think the 2x threaded sleeves are still too long, but I'll cut them to length when I know exactly what length I need to maximize thread engagement.





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Old 04-20-2013, 02:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So all I need for this swap is a $120 Pontiac rack, some tie rod adjusters, a couple custom hoses, a lathe, a machine shop, and many years of machining experience? Maybe next weekend I'll do this.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:34 AM   #29 (permalink)
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C'mon. That old Southbend lathe cost me like $100 An old lathe like that is one of the best investments you can make.

I like it when I can put things together with OEM bolt on parts but I just couldn't find shorter inner tie rods that fit my rack. (Making those thread adapters and threading my tie rods took me the better part of last Saturday.)

I'm hoping I can do this RnP project for $100-$150 as part of my $1000 build challenge I'm doing (351w,T5,8.8 LS disc rear,disc front, 5lug wheels, Power RnP, etc etc...) .
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:38 AM   #30 (permalink)
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To make up for some of the steering radius loss, I wonder if you couldn't install the Pro Motorsports Bumpsteer kit (which shortens the spindle steering arm, thus reducing the distance the tie rods have to travel)



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