need serious help planning suspension, tubular arms, strut rods etc

[v8only]

Hi all, I've finally got a small bit of change and want to put it into my 66 mustang...which has started as a bare roller...It hasn't ever been running yet, but the suspension is one of my last things I need to tackle.

Current setup:

66 Mustang, 5.0 roller ford crate engine, t5 trans, explorer 8.8 with 3.73 gears and explorer disc brakes, 2005 front mustang gt disc brakes....

I've already got mid eye springs out back...

for the front I have some new stock lower control arms already boxed and I plan on adding open tracker roller bearings to it.


However, beyond that I'm confuses...Researched tells me I believe some good adj strut rods really help, so I'm strongly leaning towards the street or track adjustable strut rods..
I need help deciding on an upper control arm...I like the tubular design, but Im not sure if the $600 pricetag justifies it or not, any opinions on this?

I'm also thinking of big front/rear sway bars....I've only got 2-3k total to spend here, and that includes setting some aside for the rest of the "little" stuff I need to get the car running, custom brake lines, a hood, fender, and other misc stuff that pops up...

I'm looking for a car that will handle amazing. I'm not looking for a 66 mustang that handles good for being a 66 mustang, If I could get it to handle at least on par with a late model muscle car I'd be happy

[Le Singe Psycho]

Opentracker sells DIY roller UCA kits also, but with a $300 (YIKES! For DIY?!?) price tag, you're already half-way towards the $600 professionally built tubular UCAs. I think you would be time and money ahead to get the rollerized tubular UCAs, something like TCPs. Rollerized spring perches make a big difference in suspension responsiveness as well... more than one might think and the DIY kit is a lot more reasonable. I'm sure it's the replacement shaft (which must be hardened?) that makes the UCA kit so spendy. In short though, and to answer your question more directly, yes, the UCAs are worth it to meet your goals.

As for the strut rod, I would consider it only after the UCAs and perches, but if you've ever disassembled a front suspension and felt just how much resistance they provide to the up and down travel of the control arms, well then you've just answered your question. Their primary purpose is to locate the wheel front-to-back in the wheel well but because their need to be rigid and the design of their bushings, they create a lot of resistance. I've always thought that adjustables are astronomically overpriced for what they do, but if you're truly looking for an "Amazing" handling '66, well I think they would have to be part of that package.

Front bar - yes. Rear bar - depends on the balance of the car. A rear bar can make the car tail-happy and therefore dangerous. If it starts coming around in a high speed corner (off-ramp) your car, and possibly you, could be goners.

Finally, don't overlook your shock package. A bunch of nice stuff with $20 Monroes could ruin the feel AND performance. Every component is there for a reason and has a job to do and if you skimp on any area, it compromises the whole system. Just keep that in mind.

JACK

[John_Del]

Originally Posted by v8only

I'm looking for a car that will handle amazing. I'm not looking for a 66 mustang that handles good for being a 66 mustang, If I could get it to handle at least on par with a late model muscle car I'd be happy

That's my plan, and I'll take it as far as is possible without spending stupid money. If I get there, great. If not, I'm sure I'll still like the car.

But I'm not sure there's any real advantage to going roller over sleeve. John from Opentracker told me there's no real advantage for a street car. I didn't question him farther, but perhaps you can ask him what he suggests for your goals.

I'm also not convinced that there's any real advantage of a complete front end redesign over the (by now) well known mods that many Mustangers are currently doing.

[v8only]

thanks for the great discussion guys.

My brother has a 65 mustang also, and bought the full DIY kit from Open tracker for the upper and lower a arms....

The upper kit is actually $449 for the FULL DIY kit...now saving $150 is still $150, but I'll be completely honest, I've got a new job now, and the DIY kit was EXTREMELY labor intensive...so much so that I don't think I ever want to do it again. The $150 extra it'll cost IMO to get an already made set is well worth it for my time savings.

I'm looking at the street or track upper tubular control arms...at $600 they are competitive with the rest, and IMO a good deal. They seem to get good reviews. What I do like is the fact that they're shorter, and they claim you can run the 245/45/17 wheel/tire on them without hitting the ball joints...I'm waiting a response, but this could be a big plus for me, as I currently run late model 04 bullitt wheels (budgetary reasons..best looking wheel for next to nothing)...and have to run a 1" spacer on each side that I would LOVE to be able to remove if the tubular upper arms from street or track allow that.

I'm just going to order it all at once...while I've got the money, If I flake on something now, it may never happen.

I've owned fox mustangs for over twenty years, while I realize the suspension is set up differently, i've grown up on fox's that kick the tail out any time you look at them wrong...for this reason I've gotten VERY good at countersteering...I'm going to try the rear sway bar, and If I don't like it, I'll yank it.

I've heard the bilsteins or koni's are best for shocks....anyone have a preference here?

[LastDeadLast]

V8Only,

I've got Street or Track's coil over front suspension with the sport valving, SoT's adjustable strut arms, and a 1-1/8" front roll-bar. I also have welded in eccentric adjustments to the lower control arm mounts which allows me to more easily dial in the amount of camber that I want. In the rear I have Global West's springs with del-a-lum bushings with Bilstein shocks. For brakes I'm running manual 4-wheel discs (the Street or Track Cobra brake package). To connect all this to the road, I've got 17" Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec tires (245 rear/225 front)... which are essentially one step up from dedicated track tires.... to help the tires with forward motion; a 9" true-trac is my traction device of choice.

I have to say.. unless you go for something exotic, I would put my 65 against just about any modern car. It brakes like a champ and the handling is very predicable without being overly harsh... and that's saying something since there's not one single piece of rubber in my suspension.

I have scared modern Mustang owners with how well my Mustang takes the curves... and even surprised myself a couple times.

-Shannon

[Huskinhano]

I'm in the process of oing upgrades on my 66 right now. I used Street or Track's UCA, adjustable struts, 1" sway bar and GT springs. I bought roller spring perches from one of the members here, I think F71? My original intents were the adjustable struts, 1" sway bar and GT springs and lower the stock UCA. I'll tell you why I strayed and bought the UCA. The big problem with these cars is a lack of caster. If you read the Ford shop manual, theoretically the most caster you can get is 1*. Each 1/32" shim is good for 1/2* caster or 1/3* camber. No more then 1/16" difference between shim packs on the UCA. The reason is now the shaft is no longer parallel to the body, it's at a 1* angle. And what happens when you try to bolt to things together that aren't parallel to each other? Something bends and distorts like the shaft. The struts are not adjustable according to the shop manual. So this kind of limits how much caster you can hope to get.

I chose Street or Track because they use rod ends that are adjustable, you can crank in more caster! Add the adjustable struts and you can do an awful lot! Another plus with the struts, no bushings to deflect and change caster under braking. Street or Tracks parts are top notch quality too. I have absolutely no regrets buying the parts even though I spent way more money then I had planned.

Let me warn you right now Street or Track's parts are serious no non sense parts, performance first convienience second. You do not adjust the rod ends to set caster/camber for each side. If you alter the stock setting of the rod ends on one arm, you must do exactly the same on the other side and adjust any variences in camber with shims. The reason is you want both arms to be dimensionally the same so the camber curves and instant centers remain constant. TCP uses barrel adjuster to set caster/camber and this alters the length of the arms from one side to another. If you bought a set of Global West arms and found them to be different lengths would you be happy?

The next thing I have to do is install a camber plate kit for the lower arms to get the camber I need, I have + camber right now. Global West makes nice arms too. I think they build in 3* caster in theirs. They would be equally good choice.

[Campindog]

All good advice here and I don't bring anything new to the party but if you are coming from a fox body platform to a vintage SLA/leaf spring set up you are in for a very pleasant surprise!
My 11th Mustang was a SN95, similar to the fox suspension. The design was so bad compared to early mustangs that I sold it pretty quickly. By then it had a complete Maximum Motorsports suspension (coilovers and torque arm). When set up properly the old stuff just works so much better. However I do miss having a 9" wheel up front, ABS and the R&P.
I run the same Star Spec tires (235/265) LastDeadLast runs and recomend them as well. Last bit... Don't cheap out on shocks! People seem to underestimate the importance of proper high speed, low speed and rebound valving. You won't find it in a $30 shock.