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Old 01-28-2013, 11:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default US or Aussie 2v

Hey guys,

Hope everyone is having a good morning. Looking for some advice on heads for my 351c. Came out of a torino 500 with 351c 2v. 75,000 original miles on a d1ae motor. I want 400 hp to start, maybe more later. I need advice on heads. I want roller rockers on a hydraulic set-up. Gonna put new valves and retainers too. Should i spend extra money on an aussie head or stick with my 2v? Advice on good roller rocker set-ups?
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You can mill your 2V heads and deck the block to get 10:1 static compression. You likely won't get quite as much low-end torque as you would with the Ausssie closed chambered heads. But that's about all.

You could also get a set of 4V iron heads. If you build the engine correctly, it will have decent low-end power and be a total screaming terror above 3500 RPMs.

Since aluminum aftermarket heads are now easily available for the Cleveland, the prices for Aussie heads are starting to come down. But as with Windsor heads, by the time you pay to machine the Aussie heads to accept screw-in rocker studs, install pushrod guides and get them prepped for performance, you're getting into aftermarket heads territory.

You might look online for a set of Aussie heads ready to go or mostly ready to go. I found a set that already had screw-in studs and pushrod guides fresh from the machine shop. It seems some people are swapping out their Aussie heads for aluminum heads and are therefore unloading the Aussie heads.

I've talked to multiple people online who really like the Harland Sharp roller rockers. Be sure to get a set specifically for the Cleveland. Although the Big Block Chevy rockers will work, the ratio isn't quite right and you'll lose a bit of lift.

**When you rebuild the engine, be sure to replace the rod end nuts. The factory examples were flawed and tended to fail. The factory, two-piece valves also tended to fail. But you mentioned you were planning on getting new valves anyway.

Last edited by Klutch; 01-28-2013 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have seen some 4v heads for sale locally. So I will see some significant power starting at 3500? I thought 4v heads made power even higher. I dont mind making power up high. This is going to be a street car with a few strip days...i am sure that even with low end torque being lower than a 2v it still wont be a slouch when i get it to 50-60 mph. Plus i mostly see people running 2v on the street, would be nice to have something different.

Suggestions on cams? Also, machime work required for 4v screw in studs, bigger valves?
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would also like to add that i am keeping the bottom stock save some oiling mods and new flat top pistons. Aiming for 10:1 compression ratio.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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May I suggest looking at the Trick Flow's. I have the 190's on my stroker (500HP)
Full Hyd roller.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by Candoo; 01-28-2013 at 03:14 PM. Reason: pic
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivancolesnic View Post
I have seen some 4v heads for sale locally. So I will see some significant power starting at 3500? I thought 4v heads made power even higher. I dont mind making power up high. This is going to be a street car with a few strip days...i am sure that even with low end torque being lower than a 2v it still wont be a slouch when i get it to 50-60 mph. Plus i mostly see people running 2v on the street, would be nice to have something different.

Suggestions on cams? Also, machime work required for 4v screw in studs, bigger valves?
If you replace the rod end nuts and make some oiling mods, you should be able to wind your Cleveland to 7,000 RPM. And this would take advantage of the 4V heads. With more mods, you could take the RPMs even higher and the 4V heads will still keep screaming. If you're not going to wind your Cleveland past 6,000 RPM, you'd probably be better off with the 2V heads.

Be aware that a lot of people will say they ran 4V heads on the street and the engine was a dog at low RPMs. This is a common issue. But I think it's mostly because the engine wasn't built correctly and the rear gear was too small. For example, you can't use a cam that has a grind designed for a 350 Chevy. It won't work well in a Cleveland. (Up at 6,500 feet above sea level, where I live, it's difficult to get good results from the 4V heads. That's why I went with the Aussie heads.)

These days, engines that immediately come on strong and have a lot of "grunt" are popular. You're not going to get that with 4V heads. But it doesn't mean the engine will be a dog at lower RPMs either.

Think carefully about your build and plan everything out. I would also recommend you sign up over at the 351 Cleveland forum. The people there have a lot of experience with the Cleveland. You'll find guys who run the 2V and the 4V heads on the street and on the strip.

For a cam, a hydraulic version of the Boss 351 cam would probably work well for you. But definitely ask on the 351 Cleveland forum.

Don't forget, the 1971 Boss 351 Mustang was the fastest factory Mustang in the 1/4 mile. The Boss 351 engine had 4V heads. I've never driven a Boss 351, but I've never heard of someone who has driven one complaining about low end performance.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Suggestions on cams? Also, machime work required for 4v screw in studs, bigger valves?
The Boss 302 and Boss 351 heads came with adjustable, screw-in rocker studs. I'm pretty sure you'll have to machine any other Cleveland heads to accept screw-in rocker studs. With the 4V heads, you don't need bigger valves.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I would love to buy some TFI heads but at $900 a head rockers not included, i cant afford to. Maybe if i sold all my 69 windsor parts, but even then it would be a stretch. I want a stock bore, flat top forged pistons, iron heads, shot peened rods, arp hardware on main caps, rods, and heads, balanced to the tee, ss valves, good set of retainers and springs, good roller rockers, an idle friendly cam, very good quality bearings, great push rods, aluminum intake, 650-750 cfm carb, improved oil paths, better than oem oil pump, and maybe a nice oil pan.

I want the car to scream, i want it to be a little temperamental, but i also want it to have the power to surprise its owner on the highway when he burries the gas into the floorboard (i am the owner). I have to run premium in all but one of my cars, so running 10:1 compression wont be a hassle. I want it to run like this for a few years at which point i hope to have enough money to stroke it below a 408, on all forged internals and 225 heads.

This is all going into a 1968 cougar xr7 with a tired and problematic 302.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivancolesnic View Post
I want a stock bore, flat top forged pistons, iron heads, shot peened rods...
As I understand it, there's no need to shot peen Cleveland rods.

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and maybe a nice oil pan.
The Boss 351 style oil pan is nice. It has a built-in baffle which allows you to run an extra quart of oil.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I have a 351C 4V. It is a beast. I don't have any problems at low RPM's. I was going to go with aluminum heads but the 4V heads flowed just as good but they were heavier. Built to rev upto 8500 RPMs and only oiling mod I did was ran a bypass from the oil port on the front of the block to the top rear so that it will oil from the top down. Used 411 gears to help keep those RPMs up. Plus I went with a solid cam. When I do get into her she breaks traction in all 3 gears.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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So after some thought and research i decided to invest in some 4v heads. Most likely open chamber because of flow properties and they seem to be slightly cheaper. My question is will i be able to get 10:1 compression with these without too much milling? I know that there is a mill thickness to cc removal ratio on these, but i would prefer to stay to a minimum, so that i dont have to keep shaving the intake manifold too.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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For your compression goals, go with the closed chamber 4v heads.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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To achieve 10:1 compression with flattop pistons, you'd have to mill the open chambered heads and deck the block. If you already had a set of 4V open chambered heads, I'd say go for it. But since you're buying heads anyway, I'd say pay a little extra for closed chambered heads. The "quench" of the closed chambered heads might give you a little extra low-end torque as well.
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