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Old 02-04-2013, 12:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Heidts 4-link Pros/Cons?

Anyone running the Heidts 4-link? How do you like it and how does it perform on the track/street? My car will not be a dedicated dragster nor a corner carving racer; I’m just shopping for a rear suspension and this one looked like it would do the job and is within my budget. The car will see the strip once in a while.
Engine: 427 Dart block/heads/custom cam
How adjustable is it? Pros/cons? Any other rear suspension suggestions?
Thanks for the help!
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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the only cons are rear exhaust pipes have to be custom made
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If I had to do it all over again, I would spend the money on the Street or Track 3-link and never look back. You can visit my blog for a good bit more information on the Heidt's 4-link install escapades I endured.

Bottom line: fit is a crap shoot depending on the car you have, roll compliance is purely a function of bushing deflection (HUGE roll-bind), dampers are extremely low-end and spring rates are not well balanced to most front suspension upgrades.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWPruett View Post
dampers are extremely low-end
This is typically the biggest downfall of going with a cheaper priced suspension system. You can barely even buy a pair of quality coilovers for the price some of these suspension kits sell for. Now just because it is costlier doesn't mean that it comes with better shocks, so do your research. An example of an expensive kit with IMO subpar shocks are the TCP kits with the Varishocks.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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A good set of leafs, Bilsteins or Konis, and an axle location device like a Watts or Panhard is all guys on the track run. It's the street guys that seem to go for these spendy setups. Consider that before you plunk down four figures for one of them.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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4 link is exelent for drag racing and normal street driving. 4 link no good for cornering.
3 link is exelnet for cornering and normal street driving. 3 link not as good for drag racing. to find out why you must get books on suspension design and study like i did.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:26 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for the suggestions thus far. Like i said, this isn't going to be a corner carving Mustang but i do want it to take turns on the street...normal turns without binding and noises. haha I'll take a look at the other systems out there and maybe my best option is to save additional coinage for a better setup.

Supershifter2: What books do you suggest? I'm never above learning something new.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudder! View Post
Thanks for the suggestions thus far. Like i said, this isn't going to be a corner carving Mustang but i do want it to take turns on the street...normal turns without binding and noises. haha I'll take a look at the other systems out there and maybe my best option is to save additional coinage for a better setup.

Supershifter2: What books do you suggest? I'm never above learning something new.
how to make your car handle by Fred Puhn is a good one to get started. then there are advanced books by Carol Smith
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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4 link is exelent for drag racing and normal street driving. 4 link no good for cornering.
3 link is exelnet for cornering and normal street driving. 3 link not as good for drag racing. to find out why you must get books on suspension design and study like i did.
Have to disagree with this popularly promoted 4-link statement. Absolute myth perpetuated by internet "chat" forum jockeys with no real racing/suspension background. Like many things, a few people started running with the thought and like magic, it becomes gospel.

4-Link rear suspensions can be configured to be extraordinarily versatile and handle as good as any out there. A 3-Link definitely has some basic advantages to be sure, but a blanket statement that a 4-link is no good for cornering is not accurate.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'll add some little detail to Sven's comments above and "why" so many aftermarket 4 links don't achieve supreme handling. First is obvious cost cutting and second is probably packaging with the third being buyer acceptance and end goals, then there is liability and desire of compliance/quietness.

1. Best components raise price point and reduce sales
2. Most kits like to be sold as bolt in and therefore are constrained in dimensions and geometry.
3. People accept things that appear to be improved late model OEM and want clean looks and "pretty".
4. Race car parts have service lives/ require maintenance and have fatigue cycles
5. Metal bushings and bearings often allows the parts to move without bind and as engineers intend the path of articulation but are noisy and not forgiving.

Short of it, joints can't bind and longitudinal tubes should work in pull/push and not in bending vectors. So ends of a link shouldn't bind with small hard bushings that ask it to twist without clearance that a Johnny joint or Heim joint could improve upon. If you look at say the Detroit Speed or Edelbrock upper links, they allow articulation and use larger reinforce boxes on the lower that carry loads and deflect.

Bind is bad and the articulation should be controlled by spring (vertical and roll) and dampened by shocks, not the bushings. This is no different than getting rid of poly/rubber in our spring perches and strut rods in the front.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWPruett View Post
Have to disagree with this popularly promoted 4-link statement. Absolute myth perpetuated by internet "chat" forum jockeys with no real racing/suspension background. Like many things, a few people started running with the thought and like magic, it becomes gospel.

4-Link rear suspensions can be configured to be extraordinarily versatile and handle as good as any out there. A 3-Link definitely has some basic advantages to be sure, but a blanket statement that a 4-link is no good for cornering is not accurate.
let me tell YOU a thing or to bubba ! a fool acuses someone HE never met a chat forum jockey ! i started road racing in 1974. i worked for Charlie Kemp and worked on his imsa cobra 2 79-80. heres a foto taken in 1979 of ME on the left with the fro bro with one of my red 66 fastback mustangs at an SAAC autocross where i out ran 40+ shelbys and came in 1st place. i have also learned quite a bit from www.maecomotorsport.com since i 1995 and live a few miles from the shop and am in there quite often. so to put it again a 3 link is way better for cornering than a 4 link. oh and btw i studied suspension books long ago. my current car a a roadrace 65 mustang. i'm also 55 yo and go to willowsprings which is about 50 miles from my house. what are YOUR credentials and stuff ? b 4 you start putting down what other people post you should ask them where they got there info lest you become a keyboard comando FOOL ! now you can call maeco at 818-701-1923 and Charlie Kemp who still has his imsa c2 or retired nascar crew chief Carson Biard and ole Carson will splain to ya WHY nascar runs a "3-Link" on the road race track. you could also call Jack Roush and axk him to splain WHY they run a 4-link for draggin' and 3 link for cornering. thank you
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWPruett View Post
Have to disagree with this popularly promoted 4-link statement. Absolute myth perpetuated by internet "chat" forum jockeys with no real racing/suspension background. Like many things, a few people started running with the thought and like magic, it becomes gospel.

4-Link rear suspensions can be configured to be extraordinarily versatile and handle as good as any out there. A 3-Link definitely has some basic advantages to be sure, but a blanket statement that a 4-link is no good for cornering is not accurate.
heres 3 fotos of a me from 1982 with a 66 i put a 351c 4V in and immediatly rushed to an autocross. the last foto is Charlie Kemps cobra 2 IMSA roadracer "I" was a mechanic on. it had a Gapp & Roush 351C with high port heads and kinsler f.i. "3 - LINK" rear with Watts Link. so go ahead and call me stupid.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Supershifter:

You are a real asset to this forum. I've read many of your threads with interest and you have helped me on personal questions. Take this compliment, breath and relax.

I really didn't read Sven's comments as personal attacks on you. "MAYBE" they were meant to be, but I didn't take it that way. Many manufactures have chosen the four link for its packaging merits over the years and some did handle reasonable. Some definitely NOT. I took his argument more as "not all four links are bad" and that this has probably been over emphasized over the years on the internet. Much like the fact that all cars benefit from an IRS swap. Denying that leaf springs are hard to screw up on roll center and anti roll properties and that many IRS that are home brewed can cause as many issues with front to rear roll centers as they correct in unsprung weight and rough surface tire contact. The internet does tend to exaggerate somethings to mythical limits.

I agree and run parallel four links to max cg and ic in straight line performance. That the triangulated 4 is a packaging exercise for cost and that the 3 link does a great job for going around corners. But a difference of opinion doesn't mean he is questioning your honor or merit or integrity. We all love you and chill
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Supershifter,

Aren't you a testy one? My comments were absolutely NOT directed at you personally, as someone looooong before you arrived got the 4-link myth started and unfortunately, as evdienced by your "response", it will continue looooong into the future as well.

While I am quite sure you have no interest in learning anything about who "I" am, I gurantee you are treading a dark path of "unknowns", particularly where your SCCA "credentials" are concerned. I spent many years of my life as the national technical director for the Club and have no need to spend time "name dropping" or posting pictures standing next to a car to support any arguement. Google me. Or drop me a note to find out what you DON'T know. I've been in this game a long time, and I'll be here a long time to come.

Basically, I stand firmly by what I said and support everything Lukesportsman followed up with. You, on the other hand, brought absolutely nothing of relevance to the suspension discussion and offered only childish venom, a collection of names, a few text references available at any public library, and a mailing address that happens to be near a decent racetrack. Oh, and that wonderfully engaging approach you seem so quick to engage.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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So are you guys arguing over over parallel or triangulated 4 links? Nevermind..
Back to our regular scheduled program.

Rudder, Have you considered a torque arm suspension? They can be set up for a ton of anti-squat at the strip then easily changed back for street driving.

Whatever you get take GsxrKen's advice and don't under estimate the importance of good shocks.
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