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-   -   Crown vic front suspension in 1966 coupe? (http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/661673-crown-vic-front-suspension-1966-coupe.html)

tnfalconer 05-27-2013 11:43 PM

Once again. Thanks for your opinions. Having driven many police interceptor CV's, I can say they handle quite well at speed exceeding 140 mph.

Here are the brass tacks of it. My 66 has worn out drum brakes, worn out power steering, worn out suspension parts and it's 4 lug, not 5.

I plan to upgrade all of this at signifigant cost. If this swap will work it will handle all of the major upgrades in one chunk. At considerably less cost.Will it be a perfect scenario? I have no idea, that is why I asked the question.

Like many ideas that I have I guess, this is one more that I will have to just do. Give it a go and see.

supershifter2 05-28-2013 01:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
back in the 70's i use to take my 65-66 mustangs throught the sweeping turns on i-55 late at night in excess of 140 with goodyear polyglass gt tires and uca lowered an inch. did great. heres a foto of one of my 66's i did that in. i'm the fro on the left. had a 1" bar, 620 lbin springs. extra leaf added to the rear. thats all.

lukep6470 05-28-2013 02:06 AM

Is the Crown Vic wheelbase the same as the Mustang? If not then don't do it.

It may make the car unsafe in some unforseen way you won't find out until too late.

In OZ we have to get everything documented and signed off by an engineer every time we make a significant change to a road regestered car. Can you get an engineer to take a look at what you are trying to do?

supershifter2 05-28-2013 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukep6470 (Post 4429099)
Is the Crown Vic wheelbase the same as the Mustang? If not then don't do it.

It may make the car unsafe in some unforseen way you won't find out until too late.

In OZ we have to get everything documented and signed off by an engineer every time we make a significant change to a road regestered car. Can you get an engineer to take a look at what you are trying to do?

getting an engineer to look at it will require thousands of dollars and the item destroyed at the end. its not that simple , i know. i have delt with engineers on construction jobs where i designed some structural items. the owner of the vehilce is responsible for its safe operation here in the u.s. also the only thing the wheel base difference will affect is the akerman. i dont see where there would be a safety issue putting that front end under a mustang. btw lots of guys take old mustangs and chevys and put straight axles under the front and street drive them. if you can read a tape measure you can do a way better job then the factories +-1/8" tolerance. yep the tolerance on the old mustangs was 1/4".

i have never heard of a wreck occuring becaue of a suspension kit or modification. there have ben some factory recals in the last few years because steering shafts, steering u-joints, have failed. about a week ago it was reported that 5 ford f series pickup trucks had the steering box FAIL causing loss of control. the gov is investigating

Roddster 05-28-2013 10:11 AM

Here, remember this: "You can beat it to fit, and paint it to match......"

Is that what you are looking for?

GT289 05-28-2013 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supershifter2 (Post 4429104)
getting an engineer to look at it will require thousands of dollars and the item destroyed at the end. its not that simple , i know. i have delt with engineers on construction jobs where i designed some structural items. the owner of the vehilce is responsible for its safe operation here in the u.s. also the only thing the wheel base difference will affect is the akerman. i dont see where there would be a safety issue putting that front end under a mustang. btw lots of guys take old mustangs and chevys and put straight axles under the front and street drive them. if you can read a tape measure you can do a way better job then the factories +-1/8" tolerance. yep the tolerance on the old mustangs was 1/4".

i have never heard of a wreck occuring becaue of a suspension kit or modification. there have ben some factory recals in the last few years because steering shafts, steering u-joints, have failed. about a week ago it was reported that 5 ford f series pickup trucks had the steering box FAIL causing loss of control. the gov is investigating

Failure does happen in the suspension business. It's only when it's frequent or when
something dramatic occurs that it becomes known. Here's one with a potential for
failure that they addressed (cast vs forged in this case)-
Front upper control arms on the 2005 Ford GT. That's an example that's definitely
known by the public. I'm not aware of any fatalities. Ford at that point may have
still had control of most/all of the 283 cars anyhow, but NHTSA makes you put the
notice out regardless.

I've been involved in the legal process AFA the aftermath of a wreck where high
performance aftermarket suspension parts were involved. You wouldn't want to
go there as a parts supplier. The only time the shark stops biting is when you can
show that a failed suspension part broke as a consequence of the accident and
wasn't a factor in causing the accident. It takes some cubic dollars to determine
that sometimes.

As far as crash-testing, even the "Big 3" aftermarket parts programs do that. One
of the criteria of being a vendor to those programs is not only giving up your parts
for poking and prodding by their engineers but they do crash test them as well. It
is a significant time and dollar investment for both the vendor and supplied corporation.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

ScottsGT 05-28-2013 02:37 PM

Question for the OP, what kind of a budget are you working with? We might be able to help you out without redesigning everything.
I'm talking serious money, not an answer like "as cheap as I can"
Sometimes a master cylinder from a Maverick will work in place of a "conversion master cylinder" at 4X the price. Maybe someone has a set of V8 spindles on the cheap and a set of adapters can be had for $150 or so, to install Cobra brakes.

jimeast 05-28-2013 02:52 PM

Crown Vic Suspension in Mustang
 
Might be tough squeeze, the track width on a 65-66 Mustang is 56" and on the 2002 Crown Vic it's 63.4"

I just checked this data quickly on Google, could be wrong.

MustangChuck 05-28-2013 03:32 PM

The Crown Vic's wheel base is quite wide. I've been under two (a '98 and an '03) pulling disk brakes. I haven't actually measured it but ~63" doesn't seem far off. I am not sure it would fit between the fender walls of your '66. Doubtful between the 67-70s as well. A maybe for a 71-73.

The only advantage to it over a MII setup is that it is a rear steer car, like the original Mustang.

Chuck

supershifter2 05-28-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustangChuck (Post 4429364)
The Crown Vic's wheel base is quite wide.

thats not wheel base , thats track width. wheel base is the distance between the center of the front and rear wheels. too much misinformation being thrown around on forums by people tyhat dont know. also the mustang was never called a coupe and ford called it a hardtop and i even posted a slaes brochure on this forum. the 65-70 mustang has a 108" wheelbase.

buening 05-28-2013 05:37 PM

2003 Ford Crown Victoria Specifications

Wheelbase - 115 "
Front Tread - 63 "
Rear Tread - 66 "
Turning Radius - 20.0 '

1964 1/2, 1965, and 1966
Wheelbase - 108"
Front tread-6cyl = 55.4"
Front tread-8cyl = 56"
Rear track = 56"
Turning radius = 19 ft.

You would have to narrow up the crossmember to fit under the mustang, but that doesn't solve the issue with the steering rack and pinion being too wide.

Also keep in mind that a suspension designed for one car doesn't mean it would handle the same when slapped onto another car. Putting a full size car's suspension under a truck isn't exactly a good comparison to putting it under our cars....assuming you want this thing to handle well after all of that work. Roll center, camber gain, wheel rate, roll stiffness, ackerman angle, steering inclination angle, scrub radius, among many others factor into suspension design and slight tweaks to a suspension can affect these things immensely.

A/S65 05-28-2013 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnfalconer (Post 4429070)
Once again. Thanks for your opinions. Having driven many police interceptor CV's, I can say they handle quite well at speed exceeding 140 mph.

Here are the brass tacks of it. My 66 has worn out drum brakes, worn out power steering, worn out suspension parts and it's 4 lug, not 5.

I plan to upgrade all of this at signifigant cost. If this swap will work it will handle all of the major upgrades in one chunk. At considerably less cost.Will it be a perfect scenario? I have no idea, that is why I asked the question.

Like many ideas that I have I guess, this is one more that I will have to just do. Give it a go and see.

I can see no advantage to this at all even just looking at the cost. First off you are going to have to do a lot of changing to your car and to the Vic parts to make them fit. Secondly you are surely going to want to go through that suspension and make sure its all in proper order, so you could have added expense of replacing those parts. And like buening said above, there's a lot more to think about than just getting it to fit.

MustangChuck 05-29-2013 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supershifter2 (Post 4429377)
thats not wheel base , thats track width. wheel base is the distance between the center of the front and rear wheels. too much misinformation being thrown around on forums by people tyhat dont know. also the mustang was never called a coupe and ford called it a hardtop and i even posted a slaes brochure on this forum. the 65-70 mustang has a 108" wheelbase.

You are correct and I knew better. Thanks for the correction.

Chuck

tnfalconer 05-29-2013 01:08 PM

I found a rack and pinion kit and a set of granada front discs to convert my 66. So that is what I will go with for now.

I still have not given up on this idea of the CV front suspension. I have the unit at my house now and will be playing with it some. I have another 66 coupe that I have been using as a parts car that I planned to build into a widebody. I WILL be attempting this swap on that frame. Using an appropriate rear end to equal out the track width and adding width to he body to cover. I appreciate the opinions but I still think it is a viable swap. It has drawbacks, I am sure I will run into fab work. That has never been a problem. I'll do a write up on it when I do.

Beau M 05-29-2013 01:30 PM

Please do! I'm interested in this swap because I would like to go with airbags at some point, getting rack and pinion to boot would be nice.


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