66 coupe period correct suspension - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 03:19 PM
fej
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Period correct is a decision you have to make, if you plan to participate in any "vintage" racing events you have to play by their rules or possibly run in some "how large is your disposable income" class.

If you want a track car but like the "cool" component of doing it vintage, that is a different conversation entirely. Suspension developments over the past 50 years along with far superior shock choices can bring a level of comfort to your track time that maybe true "vintage" does not. By comfort I mean speed and confidence/control without being on the ragged edge type of thing.

Don't buy cheap shocks, the list above is a pretty solid outline for these cars without getting too crazy. I would add torque boxes from 67/68 cars for the stiffness add and to prevent deflection at the steering box when turning wider, sticky tires. Likely would want to add a collapsible column in case of a sudden stop on course, well that and a full complement of safety gear, and probably a weld in cage for stiffening and proper harness attachment.

I would likely tell you to buy someone else's track car and sell your coupe in the box. You would be able to buy one hell of a lot of consumables for the savings you will experience vs building one yourself.

Fej

1966 GT Coupe
Not much left original
Trying to do things once
MMI CO / Panhard ~ JRI / Penske ~ Astro A5 ~ FiTech ~ MGW ~ AAW

Last edited by fej; 01-31-2017 at 03:22 PM.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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No racing just a track toy...actual racing is for the birds
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:34 PM
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This has really become a pain n the rear, there are way to many options out there without any one good place to look. I still don't know what I'm going with
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No racing just a track toy...actual racing is for the birds
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Originally Posted by fej View Post
Period correct is a decision you have to make, if you plan to participate in any "vintage" racing events you have to play by their rules or possibly run in some "how large is your disposable income" class.

If you want a track car but like the "cool" component of doing it vintage, that is a different conversation entirely. Suspension developments over the past 50 years along with far superior shock choices can bring a level of comfort to your track time that maybe true "vintage" does not. By comfort I mean speed and confidence/control without being on the ragged edge type of thing.

Don't buy cheap shocks, the list above is a pretty solid outline for these cars without getting too crazy. I would add torque boxes from 67/68 cars for the stiffness add and to prevent deflection at the steering box when turning wider, sticky tires. Likely would want to add a collapsible column in case of a sudden stop on course, well that and a full complement of safety gear, and probably a weld in cage for stiffening and proper harness attachment.

I would likely tell you to buy someone else's track car and sell your coupe in the box. You would be able to buy one hell of a lot of consumables for the savings you will experience vs building one yourself.

That's a whole new ball game. What fej said is spot on. You need to first understand the faults of the stock Mustang set up first before you go looking for parts. I went through this a couple years ago with my street car. If you want vintage parts the best bang for the buck is going to be Opentracker. If you have deep, deep pockets and looking for that last 1% go with Cobra. All suspension companies know the common problems and fixes for the Mustang's suspension. Since my car was a street car and not following class requirements all bets were off. I went to purpose built aftermarket parts from Street or Track.

To cut to the chase, you want to get rid of all rubber bushings. Adjustable struts with rod ends do wonderful things. The idea on lowering the upper control arms is to get the mounting point lower then the upper ball joint. With stock upper control arms you can not do this due to ball joint angle. If you modify them as does Opentracker, you can, the same as most if not all aftermarket arms. Yes, you will have bump steer issues that can be fixed enough reasonably and fairly inexpensively for street driving. Do your own alignments. With stock parts caster and camber become limited.

Tom

I'm not a complete idiot, pieces are missing.
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 07:22 PM
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I would highly suggest that you attend, if you can, any and all vintage racing events near you. I know SOVREN has open pits, so you can ask questions about the cars directly to the guys/gals that built them.

It's how I go shopping. :-D


1966 Restomod/track car, 1973 Q-code Mach 1, 1989 GT, 1997 F250 diesel, 2005 retired OSP Crown Vic, 2015 Focus ST-2
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 02:54 PM
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I think with your goals you would be happier with suspension mods that are more modern than vintage.
You have no racing class rules to follow so you really have no reason to go "vintage".

I feel the solutions from Mike Miaer Inc. or Street or Track would meet your goals more closely than a vintage set up that uses modified stock pieces,or pieces that mount in the stock locations.

Those two options above are not cheap,but they uses more modern geometry and as a result handle and ride more like a modern car than a vintage race type set up.

My car is all Open Tracker with Mike Miaer springs and shocks, knowing what I know now I would have done a complete modern set up over the modified stock I'm running.

Front to rear to duplicate what I have today would be about $ 3000 (race springs,watts link,shocks, upper and lower control arms and adjustable struts plus sway bar).The modern coil over set ups and either 3 link or torque arm will push $6000 total but if you total in ride and performance plus the tuning options available the new "school" will stand above the vintage in all areas.

I know that the old set ups can be very quick around a race track but the all around performance of a modern coil over set up will win in day to day.

I have a history here of standing behind the old school set ups as much as anybody ,but after seeing Mike Miaers 'ol Blue in action I'm starting to see the modern designs as a very good option.
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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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I actually want all the faults of the old suspension. The whole idea was just to explore how those guys pushed those cars around the track with the limited tech they had. I have zero intentions of actual racing, I was building this for me. With that being said, it's still a blank slate, I haven't purchased anything except an engine, so in reality the sky's the limit. What ever it is I do with it, track toy in vintage, track toy in modern, or street resto-mod, it won't be an easy decision
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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 05:46 PM
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I actually want all the faults of the old suspension.

Then just leave it completely stock, there's plenty. Seriously though, I'm not going to pretend that I'm a suspension expert. I'm not, not even an auto mechanic. I'm an electrician by trade, a noob to this stuff. I have spend a lot of time reading everything I can about suspensions and vintage Mustangs here for many, many years. Giving you my 20/20 hind sight to where I've been. It doesn't take a whole lot to make these drive pretty well cheaply and it doesn't take a whole lot to make them down right scary and dangerous. I think it's biggest fault is it's propensity to keep the front end locked up in the air when you accelerate briskly after you have done some alterations. The front end stays up in the iar, tires squeal, becomes twitchy until you jamb on the brakes. Then it's ok until the next time you hit the gas or go over RR tracks or a crest in the road. It seems the fix back in the day was to use a short stiff spring that doesn't have a lot of stored energy along with good shocks. What I found on my car was the outer tie rods run out of travel before the suspension does. it cause the steering to be some what bound up and the wheels toe in and the camber goes positive. The short stiff spring I believe was partially used to keep the suspension out of this range.

Some of the other stuff I think is more towards durability IMO. People seem to love the roller spring perches, I have them. They will last a lot longer then the crap off shore stock replacements will. The adjustable struts are another. They use spherical ends besides being adjustable for more caster. One of the big benefits, the car will stop straight. The stock struts use rubber biscuits that compress inconsistantly and will cause the car to dart around. The stock lower control arm bushings take a beating from following the arc of the strut. Once they wear, the car will be all over the road. Mine were so bad I literally could not drive next to someone. My car would move feet, not inches. It was really scary when I moved and had to drive it on the highway to my new house 150 miles away. I still remember THAT day. A popular mod is to use a mono bearing. As I said before my car is all Street or Track. I honestly think with the typical Arning drop of 1", good shocks, 1" sway bar with the typical alignment specs of about 2* caster and 0* camber along with typical unibody stiffening with other wise stock suspension components, it will drive very well. I think the trade off will be durability and preciseness

Guys like GT289, Cyclone and SilverblueBP can really give you good advice. Like I said, I'm giving you my take as a noob and week end warrior. Here's my outer end that ran out of travel before the suspension did. It could have been because of the more severe angle of the rod end with the spacer in the bump steer kit but I wonder if this happens with stock tie rods but isn't notice because it's obscured from view because of the boot? Something to ponder. My suspension is all bearing. It rides great, it's definitely not harsh or noisy. I do my own alignments too.


Tom

I'm not a complete idiot, pieces are missing.
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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 06:09 PM
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I think this is a good example of what you're looking for Mark, SilverblueBP was one of several members here to advised me and were great help. At the time of this video, Mark was running pretty much a stock suspension with the tried and true mods of the day that you're looking for. He was invited to run with the local Porsche Audi club. Talking with Mark, he said they were amazed at how well his car ran. This is a great video, turn up the volume!

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Tom

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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 06:20 PM
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I'm guessing Mark didn't get invited back after that.
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Regards,
Patrick
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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 06:53 PM
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The single bigest problem is the camber curve. Teh arning drop or even better the 1.375" drop that global West or SoT uses with their tubular arms.
Then you have chassis flexing - Subframe connectors, montecarlo bar, export brace and torque boxes help with this.
Next is binding or too much compliance in the suspension motion. Roller Strut rods, roller lower arms, and roller spring perches help with this.
Then the rear is leaf springs. several modes here help.
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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 07:12 PM
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The coupe in a box, is defiantly in a box... <snip>
I love a car with attitude.

Dennis Harrelson
65 2+2, owned since '72
Lots of mods, now just another sad project hoping for resurrection.
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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:54 PM
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I'm guessing Mark didn't get invited back after that.


You're hilarious!!

Man, that was a long time ago

-Mark-

1966 Mustang 2+2

"Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a race car. And I've never been sad in a race car!"

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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 09:19 PM
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It may be old but it still looks and sounds great! Hey is that a fair example of how it sounded on the street?

Tom

I'm not a complete idiot, pieces are missing.
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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 09:19 PM
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You're hilarious!!

Man, that was a long time ago
And an engine ago if I'm not mistaken...BOOOOM!

Regards,
Patrick
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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 09:22 PM
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It may be old but it still looks and sounds great! Hey is that a fair example of how it sounded on the street?


Yes. That was pre baffles!

-Mark-

1966 Mustang 2+2

"Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a race car. And I've never been sad in a race car!"

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