More front grip... - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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More front grip...

I am thinking that the best way to increase front grip on my 69 (global west front and rear) is to simply increase the 225 size front tire to 245s. Maybe Hoosier A7s.... I wonder if the cops will accept the DOT label?
It think 245 is the most I can go with my 16x8 wheels....
Tires seem like the biggest bang for the buck...
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 11:08 PM
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it possible to have a point diminishing gain going too wide will make the side wall to flexy

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 12:09 AM
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Re-check your camber, then give it more

i was going to point you to some awesome tire choices for about half price but now the season is fresh the fancy Conti's/Michelin/Perelli are out of stock in 16". Hoosiers still available though.
https://usedracingtires.com/collections/in-stock
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 09:51 AM
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A7's aren't really safe for the street IMO... not because of rain, but more likely to be damaged by potholes and such.... I've considered it more than once though lol

I run 245 RE71R's on an 8" and they feel and fit perfect IMO. I run 255's on 9.5" in the back and those feel great too....

What is your current front suspension hardware and alignment settings? sway bar size?
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 10:49 AM
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Front grip is always an issue on the Mustang.
Because you roll NEGATIVE in gain, you don't require the
massive static negative camber settings a stock UCA would.
You currently may be at zero and can dial in some static
neg camber that will help. I run around with 3/4 degree
negative on my '66, which is leftover from what I ran it
during open track. You can get away with about that much
(and sometimes more) and still have fairly even tread wear
across the top if your driving is fairly aggressive. I never
shifted from DOT lightly treaded "race" rubber as you give
up too much in ultimate grip on a 65/66...... it really is
that big difference over normal street rubber. Many
folks do that out here and our roads are not the greatest
either. I guess it depends upon exposure- how often you
drive it. You can also go from the 225 street rubber to the
245's in DOT and not have sidewall squirm because many
DOT sidewalls are stiffer. Mine are Kumho Victoracer.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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OK. BTW I run about -1.3 degrees static camber. I tried to split the difference between street and race settings that GW recommends.
Front grip is "OK" but could always be better.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 09:02 PM
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1.3 negative camber is a bunch, particularly with GW uppers.
Your immediate solution is front tire at this point.

GW supposedly is coming out with another system that has a more
aggressive camber curve (both Camaro and Chevelle were more
significant) but who knows when they'll happen....

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:59 AM
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-1.3 isn't a bunch for autox at all.... not sure if that's the application here or not though.

Try and get someone to take LOTS of pics of your car thru the turns and you can probably see if you need more camber or not. Or use a pyrometer to see what part of the tire is hottest... that helps too w/ pressures and camber settings.

I run +6 or more caster too, which some disagree on but i like it. It gives you the dynamic camber without as much static camber...
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:54 AM
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245's will definitely give you more grip over a 225 (if you're talking about the same tire brand/flavor). However, I would not recommend race rubber for the street: until it warms up, the grip can be horrible (and by warm up, I mean at least a couple miles of progressively harder turns - not something that I'd recommend for the street). Plus, they really don't hold up well over time (not that any tire does, but race rubber gets really hard after 1 year, 2 tops). Not sure what you're running now, but I'd look for something in the 200-100 tread wear range for the street - that should give you plenty of grip.

I used to run Kumho Victoracers on my 67: I could drive those to the track, but they did have tread and weren't a dedicated track tire (great compromise though).
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:23 PM
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For the most part with all that can be done to suspension fatter tires are the biggest improvement.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmn444 View Post
-1.3 isn't a bunch for autox at all.... not sure if that's the application here or not though.

Try and get someone to take LOTS of pics of your car thru the turns and you can probably see if you need more camber or not. Or use a pyrometer to see what part of the tire is hottest... that helps too w/ pressures and camber settings.

I run +6 or more caster too, which some disagree on but i like it. It gives you the dynamic camber without as much static camber...
Yeah, he hasn't said anything about autocross. I'm assuming he's driving it on the street. Autox is its own world....

As for your situation, 6 degrees (and more) was a common suggestion on the Fox McPherson front end. (and there are some definite issues with really high caster on strut cars that we don't need to get into here)
On the double wishbone Mustang, it wasn't really the same deal with the big numbers. I know people like the total camber gain they get from the big caster numbers. You can get into weight jacking with high caster numbers though.... mainly a situation in slaloms, but the car will feel antsy and unsettled.
I like 3.5 degrees pos on my P/S Mustang and somewhere around there on the manual car.

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As the drill sergeant said, "I taught you everything you know. I didn't teach you everything I know."

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:01 PM
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Yeah, I just think i recall him being an autocrosser from other threads. I run +7.5 ish on strut cars, but i still liked how the 68 feels with the additional caster, i've tried a lot of different alignment settings and it's fastest for me so far. every car and driver are different though!
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsams View Post
I am thinking that the best way to increase front grip on my 69 (global west front and rear) is to simply increase the 225 size front tire to 245s. Maybe Hoosier A7s.... I wonder if the cops will accept the DOT label?
It think 245 is the most I can go with my 16x8 wheels....
Tires seem like the biggest bang for the buck...
Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R's

I run 245/45/17's on all four corners on my car and couldn't possibly recommend them any higher.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Actually I am more geared towards street/open track. I currently have Kuhmo ecsta xs-1 on the front. I think I would benefit from more/stickier rubber
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:47 PM
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Today's performance street tires are SOOO much better than even 8-10 years ago it is crazy. We used to base (at the time) A6's of equal size on a 60 second course were worth 3 seconds, maybe 4 depending upon the car and class. That difference in a Rival S or RE71R is maybe 1 to 1.5 seconds now all things being equal vs say an A7. They also may say 200TW on the sidewall, but they could say 2000TW on the sidewall (no real guidelines, and they have to be 200TW for Optima), they are really high performance low mileage/life tires.

In your case I think 245's would certainly help, and in the 16 the RE71r is a very good high grip tire (from what the people who search these things out on a season by season basis say). If I did not have plans to go 18" on my car I would have bought the RE71's instead of the 615k's I have in 225/50/16 on 8" rims.

More tire is almost always mo'better, kinda like HP
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