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Cone races

3K views 22 replies 12 participants last post by  jdub 
#1 ·
Hey I don't know what else to call these cones in the parking lot deals. I was just watching some and once they launch it seems like its all second gear from there. I was wondering if you could run these things with an automatic and use a GV unit to under/over in the turns. That seems like it should work better than just dropping off the go pedal and on the brakes. I don't think I have seen anybody trying to run anything other than a manual transmission among the faster of these cars.
 
#2 ·
Assuming you are referring to Autocross, you will find some automatics there. As for 2nd gear they need to keep speeds down to put it simply. It's more about driving skill and keeping it smooth, using the brakes to help in turns, hitting apexes correctly, that sort of stuff. Herky- jerky rarely results in a good time and the best car often doesn't win either. It's the driver, nearly always the driver that makes the difference. It's a blast if you've never tried it, and lasts longer than just going zoom in a straight line for a few seconds.
 
#3 ·
With my current set up I can hit about 73 or so in second gear. Is that enough for the straight parts of these things?
 
#4 ·
Yep, odds are you will be lucky to hit 50 "ish" before jumping on the brakes.
Like 4ocious said, it's all about car control and the fastest car doesn't always win. I Autocrossed a stock old Miata for a couple years and, while I wasn't especially good, I could consistantly beat the newbies that showed up in what they thought was the fastest ride on the road. It was humbling for them.
 
#5 ·
I autocross my 390fe 68 (see avatar) I start in 2nd with a 3.70 rear gear with a TKO600 5spd, so I dont shift at all. 6500 rpm rev limiter that I've never hit.

Smooth is fast, as is driving to make the course as short as possible laps are timed to the .oo1. I had a race with a Camaro that had us swapping hundredths (I lost by .015) 6 runs for him,3 for me. I ran out of gas duh.
 
#6 ·
I ran my 87 Grand Marquis on some SCCA autocross fun days. AOD trans would shift from first at launch into 2nd and stay there throughout the course did realy well out running many high ends sports cars. Then on the street one day blew the rear. Had 3.55 gears before then installed a 3.27 rear out of another Grand Marquis. ended up being too high of a gear in second too low in 1st.
 
#7 ·
I'm not sure what a gv unit is... but getting on the brakes is more about shifting the weight than slowing the car a lot of times.

I've driven an automatic a couple times and personally didn't like it, but I just enjoy driving a stick so it is what it is...

As far as the 73 mph in 2nd goes, I would suggest that it's more important to have enough low end torque to NOT need to downshift to 1st than having a higher top end in 2nd. I think only one course had an element that required me to shift back to 1st in the past 3 years. The nature of autox is that there aren't really long straights generally. If you can hit 65+ in second AND have plenty of torque down low to come out of the sharper turns you will love it.

It's a super fun hobby, and really you can come out and have fun in just about any car, because even if the car isn't really competitive it's still fun to drive it to the edge of adhesion.
 
#8 ·
Yea, very fun and 73 in 2nd would be fine. Power & gearing is really the least important aspect of the car for autocross (as long as you don't run out of gear in 2nd). Tires, steering, suspension and light weight are MUCH more important (which is why Miata's and civics do so well).

Its also a bit of a torture test for carburetors. Pulling lots of G's with quick transitions will throw lots of fuel out of the vent tubes on a normal setup.
 
#10 ·
Good point about the handling being 1st focus....

My comment about the torque really assumed the rest was in place too since the question was really only about the gearing/top speed.

I'm faster in the 300 ish rwhp '68 @ 3000 ish lbs and 245/255 tires and LOTS of time spent adjusting things than i was in a 520 rwhp '07 @ 3700 ish lbs with lots of suspension mods and 275's all around..... Of course now i'm trying to get another 50 ish rwhp out of the '68 so i'll be re-learning how to drive it probably :)

Good sticky tires are the biggest mod you can do, but not TOO sticky (no R comps) till you learn the hard way... Slicks cover up what you are doing wrong too well.... Follow that with a good aggressive alignment (may need to upgrade suspension pieces to accomplish good settings/geometry), then good dampers.

Sam Strano dominated at CAM challenge east last year in a stock newer camaro 1LE (other than dampers, alignment and tires....) DRIVER is what matters most. There were some SERIOUSLY fast cars at that event...
 
#12 ·
I went to my first couple of SCCA Solo II events last fall and had a good time.I have a 289/T-5 3.35 1st and 3.40 rear gear and crappy valve springs (can't quite get to 6000 rpm) and I have the slow steering 19.1 box .It's kinda short but I ran first gear all the way .Worry less about power and more about handling ,a stiff chassis ,and good brakes .

one of my first runs

my SCCA SOLO II mentor AKA Dobrostang

some other guy in the group I haven't meet yet


It's a great way to learn about your car and how to drive it
 

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#13 ·
Its more about maintaining the same speed as much as possible through the whole course. My Grand Marquis was set up more for open track which is a bit different than autocross set ups. Have been doing some restoration on a X 1/9 Bertone will try it after its running. Barn find that hasnt run since 02 at least last time it was plated. My Mustang has a long way to go but its predecessor would go around a 90* corner at a light slightly tighter at 60 without squealing a tire and that was just cruising.
 
#14 ·
I'm really looking forward to getting back into this when my car is done. Fun only and not serious. It's been a while, quite a few years, but I remember always looking for the nearest gas station to the event and jacking up my tire pressures there. That, and trying not to eat the cones. Gonna have to buy me a new helmet! :yoho:
 
#19 ·
They don't really have a finite life, but scca requires 10 years old or newer, same thing with seatbelts, they expire after a certain number of years based on date of manufacture even though they probably do the job for longer.... I suppose the materials that absorb impacts and the seatbelt webbing could degrade over time, but it's the rules that matter for autox since the risk is really pretty low anyway.
 
#21 ·
The main concern with belts is that UV light degrades the material.

With helmets, the foam padding compresses over time, reducing its effectiveness.

In autocross, neither concerns me much, the drive to the autocross is more dangerous than the event itself... but I think JMN is right about the rules trickling down. Gotta keep the insurance companies and lawyers at bay.
 
#23 ·
In autocross, neither concerns me much, the drive to the autocross is more dangerous than the event itself... but I think JMN is right about the rules trickling down. Gotta keep the insurance companies and lawyers at bay.
Well, I have had to dive out of the way of an out of control BMW M3 before, but I was wearing neither a seat belt or a helmet at the time. :wink:

The other thing about autocross is your car doesn't have to go flat out for 20+ straight. You don't have to worry as much about oil coolers, expansion tanks for everything, and stuff that adds cost without being much fun.
 
#22 ·
Might I add that autox is substantially cheaper to run that an open track day - $50 versus $300+ around here. You don't get as much seat time, but I think you actually learn just as much about your car, just at lower speeds.

That said, since my tires are about done for, I'm limiting my track time this year to autox, until I can afford to replace them lol. :)
 
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