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EPAS Turning By Itself Dangerous

12K views 31 replies 21 participants last post by  Wayne clark 
#1 ·
Dear Members,
I have a couple of question about a EPAS system I installed on my 68. I used a electric power steering system from a 2002 Saturn Vue AWD and Bruno control box. The two problems that I'm having is that the steering motor shuts off and on and the most dangerous problem that happened today is that the steering wheel took a sharp left while driving at 35 mph on a two lane road. I was lucky enough to correct the steering so that I did not lose control of the car. Before I rip these parts out and replace them I was wondering if anyone else has had these problems and what you did to correct them.
Thanks for any advice,
 
#2 ·
No expert here, but, in a 2002 car there are a number of computer controlled things going on. No computers in a 68 Mustang. EPAS (Electronic Power Assist Steering?) with no electronics, sensors, etc. might be an issue. The Bruno might be looking for signals from sensors that don't exist.
 
#7 ·
I also agree with the other posters, has to be a wiring issue. You also mentioned that it is turning off by itself, this indicates some faulty wiring as well. Possibly the unit itself is going, but I would first check the wiring.

Couple of questions:

-Did you solder and heat shrink every connection?
-Did you relocate the metal box? If so, did you ground the box and also solder and heat shrink the spliced connections?

68Hildago...
 
#9 ·
I had a similar problem of intermittently not working. I had to remotely mount the ECU and used a plug added in the wires. Well one of the terminal's didn't lock in the connector properly and caused a loose connection.

Most problems on any modifications or repairs whether it be EPS,EFI,MSD or any wiring can be attributed to bad connections. Solder and heat shrink eliminates a host of problems.

Factory terminals with the proper crimping are good, but even then I like just a touch of solder where it's crimped

Larry
 
#15 ·
I'm uneducated on these steering systems. So any comment is nothing more than a casual observation.

WOW ! just a wire than comes loose at some point, the ground wire or the torque sensor wire have been mentioned; just a loose wire can cause the dang thing to take off sifdeways ? ? ? 2 cents: That's just too much complexity that isn't giving you anything special in return that I can see.

What is there about the stock well maintained steering system that is so lacking ? That's what I don't understand. Is it one of those " I climb Mt. Everest b cause it's there" kind of things. Or is there a benefit to these alternative steering systems that is so compelling that I can expect Chockostang to go out of business because no one is having their stock steering rebuilt anyone ?

Just another Fred Flintstone,

Z
 
#13 ·
I haven't spent enough time reading the threads on people's "install procedure" for this column drive EPS.

There are many things that could lead to undemanded assistance, but I'd be surprised if the make-shift ECU was the cause. I assume you bought a box off of eBay (correct me if I'm wrong).

These boxes are generally created to simulate the CAN messages the EPS needs to function. Usually a 12V high at the vehicle connection provides the "on signal" that allows the EPS to send and receive CAN messages. To provide assist, the EPS needs to see a variety of signals, depending on the supplier. Usually the two main signals are "engine running" and vehicle speed.

This long winded explanation boils down to this: assistance torque comes from the "torque loop" (torque sensor inside the column, measuring driver input torque, linked to the electric motor). If you're getting undemanded assistance torque, it could be the homebrew CAN simulator, but I'd think there's something else going on (connection from torque sensor to column's ECU (not your external ECU), broken connection inside, bad torque sensor).

But, go over all of your connections. I'd be curious to see if a different column fixes the issue, but I understand the cost and risk associated.

Disclaimer: you're using power steering outside it's intended application, you're taking a big risk. With that being said, it's a cool addition.
 
#14 ·
I have a Saturn Vue power assist unit as well, and when I was relocating the control box from where my feet would hit it, I had the same problem when I was wiring up the torque sensors (not driving but when I was testing the unit in the shop). As others have said, be ULTRA careful if you extend the torque sensor wires, because the two sensors counter each other, if one is intermittently losing connection or is wired wrong, the motor will go full torque to one side, as 68 cat experienced.

I've had my unit on for well over a year and a half and I've had zero issues with it over 7k miles and multiple track days, but making sure your wiring is sound is paramount to these working properly. I feel the benefit outweighs the risk of any issues as long as you take your time putting it in! :thumbsup:
 
#16 · (Edited)
If unit is undamaged, wired correctly and BENCH TESTED there should be no issues.
There have been so many of these conversions done that your issue would have popped up by now. Even Ford GT owners are extremely please with the Vue unit modification, if its good enough for $200,000 plus cars I am confident mine is going to be just fine.
Your best bet is to bench test and verify that ALL the wiring is correct before tossing it to the dumpster.
There is also the possibility that the unit itself is defective especially if came from a vehicle that was in a wreck.
Too many variables to use the same paintbrush and paint the concept bad.
 
#17 ·
I'll bite Fred ;o) It was a fun project but I absolutely LOVE being done with the stock system. Stock power steering is an awesome unit, and I know its politically incorrect to say so, but I abused mine for 17 years and it served me admirably but was in need of complete rebuild of every component. For right about $200 cash and $5-10K of my "free" labor, my motor and engine compartment are clean of all the weight and unsightliness of the hydraulic system.

Nothing puts a smile on my face like an engine compartment with a simple long block with alternator - clean and 60's-esque. No fuss no muss, no leaks, when I want more power, I dial it in, when I want less e,g, high speeds, I dial some out. I even have myself convinced I can feel the extra beans in the motor from not having the parasitic drag of the pump so even as a placebo it works!!!

I run 225s and a 13" wheel so power steering is a must since I don't frequent weight rooms.

I still show off having power steering with the engine off - simple pleasures, ran out of gas just as I was coming into a gas station and got ready for the big grunt as the engine died but nothing but smooth spinning of the wheel with one finger.

I was however very careful wiring the controller box with the correct weight wire and insuring the wiring is correct, solder joints perfect. All wires are stress relieved and carefully run as if my life might be on the line... Given how many high mileage cars are running around with these systems, I feel pretty confident in my system knock-on-wood!!! Remember, I'm the guy who shortened his own stock A-arms so I probably live a little more on the edge than many...
 
#18 ·
So let's say for the sake of arguement, that the electric steering is very reliable. I'm still wondering what it gives me that I NEED over the stock manual non power system. I don't need power steering, so why do I need electric steering ?

Fred F.

aka Z
 
#20 ·
You don't need it.

If you're happy with your manual steering, then power steering, whether it's hydraulic or electric, won't provide you with any benefit. For me, however, converting to power steering of some sort is almost a 'must have'. With 235/45/17's my car is just an absolute pig at slow speeds. Parallel parking is something I dread every single time. So for me the EPAS system has several advantages over any hydraulic system, whether it's a factory-style system, power R&P, or Borgeson, both in terms of system simplicity and performance.
 
#22 ·
This is why I like the Prius EPS. No cutting, no soldering, no centering issue and no aftermarket module to control steering. Running in Fail-Safe just as manufacturer intended. The most critical part of the EPS are the torque sensor wires. Any anomalies and it will feed wrong value to the ECU.

Waid
 
#23 ·
Hi Guy's,
Thanks so much for all of your advice and time. I just want to mention what happened on my Sunday drive was my mistake somewhere with with the wiring when I moved the module. I emailed Bruno Antunes the maker of the controller and he answered me right away and was very helpful. He also said there is something faulty with the connections and there is probably a loose wire or two. I did use crimp connectors and heat shrink when I should have soldered them. I'm just thankful no one was injured or killed because the wheels took a hard left when I wasn't expecting it.
When I find my mistake I will update the cause.
Thanks again,
 
#24 · (Edited)
Our friend Bruno sent me a "how to" fix this problem. let me know if interested or you could ask him I'm not sure if he still give out the instructions. Also on my set-up I installed a toggle switch just in case I would like to override it which I do on hiway speeds.
 
#30 ·
It's a fix that Bruno does not want to be held liable. I myself have not even done it yet, hopefully I dont need to. Not trying to be an ***. If you want it I can email it personally to you like what I have done with couple of members already.
 
#32 ·
Having recently converted my 67 vert over to a prius eps system along with replacing all the front suspension componets with non oem parts I personally like the power system as the car is a lot easier to drive.
I chose to use the prius set up because I was not to keen on relieing on a module built & sold by someone else & it's my understanding that even if the prius control module fails I still can control the car at a much increased steering effort unlike the vue set up.
I'm running 225x55 r16 's on a 6 cyl car that required a lot of effort with the stock steering wheel as well as the 14" one I went to at pretty much any speed less than highway speed..
Like some others have posted basically 1 finger standing still with eps. No engine power lost only more voltage needed. I know hp needed for voltage but come on you can nit pick anything to death.
I guess it all boils down to everybody has to decide what modifications they want to do to their car & how they choose to go about it regardless of what other people think or say about the modifications. I know a lot of what I have changed in my car some people have a lot of negative comments why they would not do that particular modification. But after i,ve did whatever it's usually a lot better if not I still have the old stuff I can put back on.
 
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