My 302 - Page 9 - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #121 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:37 AM
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OKC, sounds like you're well on your way. Careful shopping, if done patiently, can score you the good deals you are finding now. You'll need to pay attention to the dampener and flexplate or flywheel ( are you running manual or auto ?) when you are assembling, because your 90 has 50 oz-in balance instead of 28 oz-in balance like the 1980 stuff. Do you know what camshaft is in the 1990 block ? and what pistons are in that block ? Don't get rid of any of your old stuff yet.....you will want your older timing chain cover for the fuel pump drive, and you'll need the eccentric to drive it. Im not sure if that bolts onto the front of the 90 timing set or if you have to use the older design timing chain and gears. Good score on the bargain hunting. LSG

LSG, I recently did this swap with a GT40P and did a pretty in-depth post on it if you're interested for future reference. A couple quick points. I used a Professional Products balancer, it uses a bolt on weight so it can be easily used on a zero, 28 or 50 oz balance, it has both the 3 & 4 bolt pulley pattern and sets of timing marks. It's really fool proof and it's about $100. For the flywheel I used a PRW billet wheel that is SFI rated. While being billet and SFI rated my be over kill at least you know it's new and safe. The reasons I used it was again of having a BTW on weight. You're not married to one balance. It's also drilled for every possible clutch kit used on a SBF. It I can use any size vintage style and the new metric style with dowels. I paid about $230 to my door. I was given a free FMS Cobra clutch kit years ago. I was able to use it and offset the cost of the flywheel.

Tom

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post #122 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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OKC, sounds like you're well on your way. Careful shopping, if done patiently, can score you the good deals you are finding now. You'll need to pay attention to the dampener and flexplate or flywheel ( are you running manual or auto ?) when you are assembling, because your 90 has 50 oz-in balance instead of 28 oz-in balance like the 1980 stuff. Do you know what camshaft is in the 1990 block ? and what pistons are in that block ? Don't get rid of any of your old stuff yet.....you will want your older timing chain cover for the fuel pump drive, and you'll need the eccentric to drive it. Im not sure if that bolts onto the front of the 90 timing set or if you have to use the older design timing chain and gears. Good score on the bargain hunting. LSG
Its just the block and original crank. No piston or anything.
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post #123 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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post #124 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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I picked the block and crank up today. The seller is also going to give me the rest of the stuff that he has for it over the weekend once he gets it out of storage.

Can the connecting rods be used on the roller block or should I just buy new ones?
What all can be used on the roller block from the 1981 block?
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post #125 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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OKC, sounds like you're well on your way. Careful shopping, if done patiently, can score you the good deals you are finding now. You'll need to pay attention to the dampener and flexplate or flywheel ( are you running manual or auto ?) when you are assembling, because your 90 has 50 oz-in balance instead of 28 oz-in balance like the 1980 stuff. Do you know what camshaft is in the 1990 block ? and what pistons are in that block ? Don't get rid of any of your old stuff yet.....you will want your older timing chain cover for the fuel pump drive, and you'll need the eccentric to drive it. Im not sure if that bolts onto the front of the 90 timing set or if you have to use the older design timing chain and gears. Good score on the bargain hunting. LSG
I plan on running a T-5. No cam or pistons, just a block and crank. Thanks, Im really excited I found them.
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post #126 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:48 PM
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Everything in the '81 block can be used in the roller block, even the crank if you have the oil slinger machined off the back end.

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post #127 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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Everything in the '81 block can be used in the roller block, even the crank if you have the oil slinger machined off the back end.
Great.
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post #128 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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Should buy new connecting rods or use the ones off the 81 motor?
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post #129 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 10:36 PM
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Tongue 302 build

OKC, you can use the 1981 connecting rods, you already have them, and they'll be fine. You might consider having the big ends checked for size, and ARP rod bolts would be a nice addition. You will need the same 3101HC.030 pistons we talked about before, and you'll want Hastings 2M138.030 rings. Do you have a preference on which crank to use ? If you use the roller engine crank, you'll have to get the flywheel and dampener that Husk was talking about ( 50 oz ). If you use the 1981 crank, you can use older 28 oz stuff, but you have to have the slinger cut down, its easy, the machine shop can do it for you. Then we'll start looking at camshafts. You're going to need a spider and the bolts for it if the block guy doesn't have them for you. LSG

Last edited by LSG; 02-16-2017 at 10:37 PM. Reason: punctuation
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post #130 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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OKC, you can use the 1981 connecting rods, you already have them, and they'll be fine. You might consider having the big ends checked for size, and ARP rod bolts would be a nice addition. You will need the same 3101HC.030 pistons we talked about before, and you'll want Hastings 2M138.030 rings. Do you have a preference on which crank to use ? If you use the roller engine crank, you'll have to get the flywheel and dampener that Husk was talking about ( 50 oz ). If you use the 1981 crank, you can use older 28 oz stuff, but you have to have the slinger cut down, its easy, the machine shop can do it for you. Then we'll start looking at camshafts. You're going to need a spider and the bolts for it if the block guy doesn't have them for you. LSG
I can't find the piston rings on Summit or Speedway motors.

I planned on using the roller motor crank since its already been turned and goes with the motor. For the spider and bolts, are you referring to the piece that goes on top of the block and holds the lifters in? If so, he should be giving me that along with other stuff for the motor this weekend.

Would a stock 5.0 HO cam work good(to help save money) or since I have to buy lifters does it really make a difference? What type of timing chain setup should I use?
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post #131 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 12:18 PM
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If you can't find the rings on Summit, call them. Yes you can use the 81 connecting rod, I'm pretty sure it's the same exact forging since day 1 of the 302. The Mustang cam will work very well. You can pick them up used pretty cheap. I paid $60 and that was with shipping too. I may even have one. That's what I love about them, it absolutely no issue running a used cam on used or new roller tappets. Lots of guys upgrade their cams and decent used cams are very reasonable.

You could actually use the 80 crankshaft if you have the oil slinger ground off. This way you will have a 28 oz unbalance roller motor and use the older balancer and flywheel.

Tom

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post #132 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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If you can't find the rings on Summit, call them. Yes you can use the 81 connecting rod, I'm pretty sure it's the same exact forging since day 1 of the 302. The Mustang cam will work very well. You can pick them up used pretty cheap. I paid $60 and that was with shipping too. I may even have one. That's what I love about them, it absolutely no issue running a used cam on used or new roller tappets. Lots of guys upgrade their cams and decent used cams are very reasonable.

You could actually use the 80 crankshaft if you have the oil slinger ground off. This way you will have a 28 oz unbalance roller motor and use the older balancer and flywheel.
I'll see if I can find one for sale locally. One of the things that the 81 motor did not come with was the harmonic balancer. It did come with the flywheel though. So with the roller motor the only option for the harmonic balancer/flywheel is the what you went with? Or could I find a used setup on that?
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post #133 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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If you can't find the rings on Summit, call them. Yes you can use the 81 connecting rod, I'm pretty sure it's the same exact forging since day 1 of the 302. The Mustang cam will work very well. You can pick them up used pretty cheap. I paid $60 and that was with shipping too. I may even have one. That's what I love about them, it absolutely no issue running a used cam on used or new roller tappets. Lots of guys upgrade their cams and decent used cams are very reasonable.

You could actually use the 80 crankshaft if you have the oil slinger ground off. This way you will have a 28 oz unbalance roller motor and use the older balancer and flywheel.
Looks like I found a cam out of a 1995 GT 5.0 for $10. And its local.
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post #134 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 07:57 PM
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Tongue 302 build

OKC, my fingers are fat, and sometimes I type in the dark and don't hit the keys correctly. That should be Hastings 2M139.030 rings. Maybe your machine shop can get them for you ? Should cost about $30 for the whole set. LSG
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post #135 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 08:48 PM
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I'll see if I can find one for sale locally. One of the things that the 81 motor did not come with was the harmonic balancer. It did come with the flywheel though. So with the roller motor the only option for the harmonic balancer/flywheel is the what you went with? Or could I find a used setup on that?

OK, on the harmonic balancer. Ford used 2 different styles not related to engine balance. Up to and including 69 Ford had the lower hose on the passenger side of the pump. The balancer used 3 bolts to hold the pulley on. In 1970 Ford moved the lower hose to the driver's side and held the lower pulley on with 4 bolts. At a casual glance the differences seem minor but they really snow ball. You just really can't mix and match the parts between the two. Even the timing marks are different. On the early 3 bolt system the timing pointer is cast into the timing cover. On the 1970 and up, the pointer was eliminated from the cover and replaced with a bolt on sheet metal pointer. The new cover superseded the older style as a service replacement along with a different sheetmetal pointer that bolted on as well. Basically it really doesn't matter which style you use, you just have to stick with that style. Radiator and all.

The reason I recommended that balancer is because it's pretty much fool proof. Most of the time you're going to need a new balancer anyway. the elastomitor that bonds the balancer's inner and outer rings usually is dry rotted or slips. It's a consumable item. It's going to cost about $100 for a new one. The Professional Products balancer I sugested has all bases covered. It's going to fit every possible scenario. 3 bolt, 4 bolt, 28 oz, 50 oz or zero unbalance. You're not going to buy the wrong one. So if you use the crank that came with the roller block motor, the 50 oz balancer, remember you can replace the weight at any time, you can use what ever front end dress you want. the early 3 bolt with the lower hose on the passenger side or the newer 4 bolt with the lower hose on the driver's side. You're covered.

Good deal on the cam. Now for tappets. You can use used tappets with no problems. You will most likely have to get custom made pushrods. You can get what's called a checking pushrod which is adjustable. You want to put a black marker on the valve stem and rotate the engine. the rocker arm will wipe the ink off the stem tip. You want it wiped from the center and adjust the pushrod to get it there. Then measure the pushrod to have a set made to that length.

Tom

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