Starting 302 Rebuild - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Starting 302 Rebuild

Iíve been doing some research getting ready to get a 302 rebuilt for a 65 Mustang and every time I think I know which direction I want to go, I come across another variable to consider. So I thought I would ask some opinions here on the forum. Just looking for a few suggestions. The car is an automatic. Iíve upgraded the rear end to a 9-inch. With a Detroit TrueTrac w/3.55 gears.
The 302 that I want to get rebuilt looks like a little work was done to it at some point:
Holley Carb R84012-1
Weiand 7515 Intake
D00E heads w/aluminum roller rocker arms, double springs
.030 pistons
I believe the previous owner said a cam had been put in, but Iím not sure what kind but it has solid lifters.
But my question is this: A while back I bought a 68 Mustang that came with a 351. The owner threw in a new oil pump, new timing gear set, cam and lifters. If the builder tells me the current cam and lifters in the 302 need to be replaced because of wear or damage, could the cam and lifters I got with the 351 work in the 302 block? And if so, how would that affect the top end of the engine? I know the builder should be able to tell me all of this, but I would like to have a little knowledge before I walk into the shop.


Also, as you can see from the pictures, both the bottom end and heads are pretty bad, what would be the best way to clean them up before taking them to the shop. I thought about disassembling the heads and soaking the bare head in vinegar. I've used vinegar on other things and I've had pretty good results but I read it wasn't recommended to do the vinegar trick with iron. Any suggestions?

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 02:10 PM
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Those are TRW forged pistons in your engine .
The machine shop should have a jet parts washer to clean everything

68 302-4V w/1.84",1.54" ported , Comp XE268H , 2200 rpm Hughes converter, 3.25 9" w/10x2.5" shoes , MSD box/distrib , RPM intake , 670 Holley , cross flow aluminum radiator , Granada discs......


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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 02:16 PM
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Whatever you do, make sure it's got ARP rod bolts.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re

Thanks. These may be a stupid question but what's the purpose of the double springs and why are there little small caps on top of the valves.


Also, someone told me it was strange that with everything that had been done, he was surprised the engine has solid lifters as opposed to hydraulic lifters. Is that normal? And are those pistons worth using in a rebuild if the walls don't need to be bored to repair anything?
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 04:03 PM
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The "little small caps" are hardened caps because the valve stem tip isn't hardened. These are used with "rail rockers," the end of which are shaped like a section of channel. There are no pushrod guides so the tip of the valve is used to align the rocker. These aren't really suitable for high performance. Solid lifters used with rail rockers is, to me also, surprising.

Regarding the double valve springs, if I'm not mistaken (though I very well could be), they're primarily to cancel out harmonics in order to stabilize the valvetrain.

Last edited by rose62; 04-09-2017 at 04:06 PM.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re:

@rose62 - Yeah, when I pulled the heads off, one of the push rods did appear to be bent a little.


As far as the rail rockers go, so it's safe to say if I want to build a stronger 302, I need to replace the rail rockers? Any suggestions? Every time I think I have it figured out, I learn something new. I guess that's good but it can almost be over-whelming.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 05:39 PM
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The best advice it to be realistic about how you're going to run the motor. If you're never going to exceed 5500 rpm, then build for that. Stop light to stop light? Or Cruising? Good transient response or 1500 to 6000 rpm banzai runs? Be realistic and you can't go wrong and never scrimp on fasteners.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:04 PM
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Solid lifter cams are more precise than hydraulic cams. They offer a bit of a performance boost, but most people don't like solid lifters because they make noise and require periodic adjustment. Personally, I think solid lifter cams are cool!

Your engine seems to be a bit of a hodge-podge build. Why the single plane intake? Those usually work best for very high RPM applications. If you're not going to wind your engine to 6500, a dual plane would probably work better for you.

We can't really commend on the 351W cam because we know nothing about it. It might work OK, it might not. It would depend on what kind of profile it has. You would have to change your firing order to match the cam, but that's no big deal.

I too would suggest you figure what you want your engine to do. Then order a custom cam, hydraulic or solid, your choice. Talk to your machinist about what's going on with your valves and valve train. Looks a little odd.

If your engine has a lot of miles on it since the last rebuild, likely, the block will require boring to do it right. Unfortunately, that would prevent you from using your current pistons. However, if your machinist says the cylinders are fine, give them a good honing and poke those pistons back in with new rings.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 09:15 PM
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If I recall, the '82 GT used a 351 marine cam. Or maybe it was a 302 marine cam.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 07:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re

Thanks for the responses. Yeah, thats how the engine was when I took it apart. The previous owner said it had been rebuilt and in his words "ran like a scolded dog". Since I've been doing a little research, it does seem like some of the parts don't make for a good combination but I wasn't sure. But I will let the shop take a look at it and give me some recommendations.

The build I'm looking for is nothing drastic. Just a decent mildly built 302 that I can have a little fun on the weekend. Mostly just cruising some back roads. But I also want the ability to get on it at a red light when I pull up beside one of those little load Honda Civic's. I'm 43 years old so I wont street race but I wouldn't mind beating them on the take off!

Thanks again for all the responses and advice.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 08:12 AM
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I'm confused. You say that your heads have D0OE casting numbers but I don't see any pushrod guide plates to keep the rockers aligned with the valve tips. And those aluminum rockers are most assuredly not rail style.
If you have a 351W engine use the heads off of it. Back in the days before aluminum heads were raining from the sky 351Ws were the trick heads for 289/302 engines.
+2 on using a dual plane intake.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re:

awhtx- I can assure you that you're not as confused as I am. Lol, I'm trying to learn all this and there's a million things to take in.
Those are the casting numbers on the heads. They were on the 302 when I got it. I do have another set of D00E heads that came off a 351W, but from what I understand the D00E heads that were on the 302 had already been worked to fit the 302. I had picked up a set of GT40s to put on the 302, but after doing some research, it seems as though the D00E heads will perform better than the GT40's which is why I chose to go with the D00E's but I still have the 40s.

As far as the rockers not being rail style, I had no idea what a rail style rocker was until rose62 explained it to me yesterday. But I'm learning and any additional knowledge you can give would be greatly appreciated. I've attached pictures showing the castings on the head.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awhtx View Post
I'm confused. You say that your heads have D0OE casting numbers but I don't see any pushrod guide plates to keep the rockers aligned with the valve tips. And those aluminum rockers are most assuredly not rail style.
If you have a 351W engine use the heads off of it. Back in the days before aluminum heads were raining from the sky 351Ws were the trick heads for 289/302 engines.
+2 on using a dual plane intake.
Look closely at his first picture. 3rd stud from the right you can see the guide plate.


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1967 Coupe, 289-4V, T-5
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 09:39 AM
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When I first read your post, I wasn't logged in and didn't see the pix of the rockers. Yeah, definitely not rail rockers, LOL. But the engine builder obviously kept the stock valves with the hardened tips. I guess that wouldn't hurt anything. And, so I'm guessing that those are standard valve sizes, too.

As for the cylinders, if the bores aren't tapered, I wouldn't do anything to it except hone it for ring seating. Is there a ridge at the top of the bores? If you have the block vatted, you'll have to have cam bearings installed. Excuse me if you knew that already.

I've attached a photo of a comparison of a self-aligning rail rocker and an non self-aligning rocker. The lower unit uses the flanges on the sides of the tip, riding against the cup on the top of the valve, for aligning purposes, eliminating the need for guide plates or slotted push rod holes like used in the pre-'66 heads.
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Last edited by rose62; 04-10-2017 at 09:44 AM.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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I dont see or feel a ridge. Thanks again.
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