An interesting part: the mythical 30573 8-vane water pump impeller (for early 289s) - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 07:53 PM
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 09:43 PM
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posted a link to that back on post #11

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
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Yep, I am aware of the HiPo cast impeller rebuild kit that uses the 6-vaned impeller.

I'm not sure what the practical difference is between the 8-vane and the 6-vane. Someone once told me that the HiPo pumps needed to avoid cavitation or fluid flow issues at high RPM, so they sacrificed some low RPM performance in order to keep the high RPM performance. Not sure how true that is, but that may be the difference between the 8-vane and the 6-vane.

If what I have been told about the one in my possession is correct (and I have no reason to believe it's not), then the 8-vaned impeller was a precursor to the 6-vaned version. Take that however you will - could be that the 6 is a better piece, or it could be that the 8 is better for low RPM work.

I'll find out for you guys in about a month


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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:47 AM
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Here's someone on eBay selling rebuilt SBF waterpumps that come with the 8 fin impeller. The pics only show the backside of the impeller, so can't verify if it really is an 8 fin part. Wonder if the seller would be willing to give up his source of 8 fin impellers?

1967-68 Ford Mustang, Fairlane 289ci REBUILT water pump C8OE-8505-D 8-Fin imp | eBay



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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly_H View Post
I'm not sure what the practical difference is between the 8-vane and the 6-vane. Someone once told me that the HiPo pumps needed to avoid cavitation or fluid flow issues at high RPM, so they sacrificed some low RPM performance in order to keep the high RPM performance. Not sure how true that is, but that may be the difference between the 8-vane and the 6-vane.
Quite true. The BOSS 302 also had six curved vanes. I don't know how much of a problem the six curved vanes are, I added AC to my 289HP, and it does not overheat.

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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:20 AM
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If you are not concerned about originality, I've used the Edelbrock Victor water pumps on the last two engines I've built and never had any cooling problems. They use a cast impeller, a thicker pulley flange and appear to have a slightly different housing from the standard replacement type water pumps. One thing I like, they use threaded bungs on the heater and thermostat bypass hose hose connections. The only problem I see is their over $200 price tag.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:30 AM
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If you are not concerned about originality, I've used the Edelbrock Victor water pumps on the last two engines I've built and never had any cooling problems. They use a cast impeller, a thicker pulley flange and appear to have a slightly different housing from the standard replacement type water pumps. One thing I like, they use threaded bungs on the heater and thermostat bypass hose hose connections. The only problem I see is their over $200 price tag.
I've had one for over 20 years, along with a new 4 copper row that came with the car I have NEVER seen my temp over 2/3 - excuse me, gotta go knock on wood big time Thunder hill in 100 degree weather, sitting in Bay area traffic in over 100 degrees, Boulder Co over 100 degrees at a mile high to sweaty sticky east coast 100 degree traffic... WHen reading this thread I did do a quick search to see what they use in the edelbrock but no pics of inside. The housing is different because they say their pump solves the OEM problem of favoring one bank head over the other for flow. Their pump puts the same flow into each head somehow. I thought that might be important with aluminum heads and bought it pre kids when I had more money than sense but its been care free - I'll say that

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 10:10 AM
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Can anybody explain the mechanical difference between the high flow and low (regular?) flow of water pumps. Does it have to do with the number of impellers expressed here?
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 12:33 PM
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then there is the Cardone HD pump that I bought. That is an eight bladed Star impeller with a plate on the side. I wish I had a picture, I can't find it. It has worked well for me without paying $300 for a water pump.

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:46 PM
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The video above is from a very bright woodworker. In this one, he is doing some experimentation with impeller design for home built dust collectors. These impellers move air and not water but his results may prove interesting to anyone thinking about our water pumps. Specifically, impeller shape has an impact on load and performance; that is: straight, forward curving, and backward curving impellers for his experiments. For us, the water pumps that are being discussed also have different shapes in addition to being different number of blades. The HIPO is a curved impeller shape. The current star impellers are straight shaped. And the eight vane is an angled straight shape impeller with every other blade having a dog leg. These differences will all play a factor in the loads exerted by the water pumps and in the amount of water they are pushing. I think this discussion involves more physics than we may have first thought.

I hope someone might find this post applicable to the discussion. I really wasn't sure whether I should contribute it or not.
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:58 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuEaP9kyiFc

The video above is from a very bright woodworker.
I hope someone might find this post applicable to the discussion. I really wasn't sure whether I should contribute it or not.
Interesting. I admire the guy's skills. I designed a few blowers for hoods and we always used a slinger- what he called "backwards", because it moves more air against high static pressures (a long pipe with lots of bends). We had a wind tunnel and could accurately test the output. I'm not sure he was aware of the formulas required to get the proper housing shape. The impeller is important but so is its housing, particularly the cutoff dimension- the closest point of the scroll to the wheel.

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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 09:30 PM
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I have an Edelbrock water pump on my FE,the first one went only 19,000miles (in 6 years) I replaced it with another one,I swear the first one ran cooler.

If I ever get the time I want to press the old one apart and re seal it.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 11:32 PM
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An old school technique for maximizing flow from a water pump was to reduce the clearance between the pump and housing to between 0.005" and 0.010" by way of simply pressing it on the shaft. A guy named Howard Stewart once built a water pump "dyno" and proved this worked. (Among other things he found out.) Pretty much all performance type pumps run similar clearances. Stock replacement ones run more like 0.050". The clearance is that between the edge of the blades and the housing it's turning. Supposedly you can about turn a low flow water pump into a high flow simply by tightening this clearance up. Apparently it helps a bit on the stamped style impellers but way more so on the cast ones. So if you're into modding your own pumps then adjusting clearance should be at the top of your list. Even a stock replacement pump can benefit from a tweak. You kind of need a press.
Speaking of Stewart, they sell what are likely the best small block Ford water pumps you can buy. Selection is a bit limited and their focus is certainly on racing but they make good stuff. Stage one's run about $100. I suspect they are much like the Hi-po style discussed here but with tighter tolerances. They certainly do favor the Hi-po style "swept" vanes. I like the Stage two aluminum pumps, they run about $200.

They have a slightly wonky website. Stewart Components That should take you to the stage ones and you can click on the other ones from there. There's also a tech tips section which is well worth a look. They don't like fan clutches for some reason, not sure I agree with that but the rest is some good info.
They purport to have a forum there but there's nothing in there except some Russian looking spam, skip it.
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM
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I like the Milodon pumps...


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