STOCK+ build NOT STROKER - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...view/make/ford

Would installing this kit be a good start point?
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 03:22 PM
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Has it already been rebuilt? If the end result is gonna be >.040 over...find another block!

Either way, I'd do a compression check, etc. & w/ 32K if the bottom end checked out...be tempted to leave it alone.

What trans & gears??

If ya leave the shortblock as is, check how far the pistons are in the hole & figure out your compression (valve reliefs/ dish, head gasket thickness, etc. + cyl head chamber size...60cc on early Windsors?).

Assuming you can get 9-9.5:1 with decent quench, the following junk would probably get ya where you wanna be:

-Assuming you can get the stock heads ported to flow decent & screw-in studs/ guide plates, surfaced, hardened ex. valve seats if needed, etc. for $500 bucks or less…that’s not horrible. Much more than that…maybe not worth it…

-I would really consider a roller cam & link-bar lifters. Decent link-bars are ~$350 new and can be found used for ~$200-$250… If you go that route, look at something like a Howards roller cam part# CL222755-08. The timing events and tight lobe separation will help with the small valves and relatively restricted exhaust.

-Weiand Stealth intake and QuickFuel 650-680cfm double-pumper or vacuum secondary carb (depending on gears & trans).

-Do a Duraspark conversion, slap a steel gear on and recurve it!

-1-3/4 primary headers and 2.5” dual exhaust with something like Dynomax UltraFlo’s (or some other straight-through muffs).

-A C4 with mild stall or Toploader with 3.50 gears…if a 5-spd I’d go 3.70-3.80 (same for AOD depending on mods to it!).

Also gonna need pushrods, rockers, oil pump/ ARP shaft, gasket set (plus probably specific head & intake gaskets) and the usual litany of little crap that adds up to not little $$…

Last edited by funnelcake; 04-20-2017 at 03:26 PM.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:02 PM
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isnt this a bit overkill for a basically stock internal engine?
nope ! those bolts have already been torqued and stretched. I have seen many an engine blode up cause an old rod bolt failed. If you plan on reving to 6000 rpm now are later they will keep the rods together. Stock bolts are nothing special and the rod bolts take massive abuse. it isnt the HP that abuses the bolts but constant reving up and down that weakens the bolts. they are CHEAP insurance.

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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by funnelcake View Post
Has it already been rebuilt? If the end result is gonna be >.040 over...find another block!

Either way, I'd do a compression check, etc. & w/ 32K if the bottom end checked out...be tempted to leave it alone.

What trans & gears??

If ya leave the shortblock as is, check how far the pistons are in the hole & figure out your compression (valve reliefs/ dish, head gasket thickness, etc. + cyl head chamber size...60cc on early Windsors?).

Assuming you can get 9-9.5:1 with decent quench, the following junk would probably get ya where you wanna be:

-Assuming you can get the stock heads ported to flow decent & screw-in studs/ guide plates, surfaced, hardened ex. valve seats if needed, etc. for $500 bucks or less…that’s not horrible. Much more than that…maybe not worth it…

-I would really consider a roller cam & link-bar lifters. Decent link-bars are ~$350 new and can be found used for ~$200-$250… If you go that route, look at something like a Howards roller cam part# CL222755-08. The timing events and tight lobe separation will help with the small valves and relatively restricted exhaust.

-Weiand Stealth intake and QuickFuel 650-680cfm double-pumper or vacuum secondary carb (depending on gears & trans).

-Do a Duraspark conversion, slap a steel gear on and recurve it!

-1-3/4 primary headers and 2.5” dual exhaust with something like Dynomax UltraFlo’s (or some other straight-through muffs).

-A C4 with mild stall or Toploader with 3.50 gears…if a 5-spd I’d go 3.70-3.80 (same for AOD depending on mods to it!).

Also gonna need pushrods, rockers, oil pump/ ARP shaft, gasket set (plus probably specific head & intake gaskets) and the usual litany of little crap that adds up to not little $$…
Engine checked out ok. The engine just needed the heads re done and it would be "done" the thing was that since its apart we will just do everything else.

The engine was never rebuilt so the plan is to buy the re build kit of summit that has everything except crank and rods. To this add the 600cfm intake and carb combo from summit, cam, port and polished head.

Trans is a 3speed toploader and gears are unknown.
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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In theory I cant get a cam with more than .500 lift do to stock heads right?
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:43 PM
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In theory I cant get a cam with more than .500 lift do to stock heads right?
put bigger valves in. 1.94-2.02 , 1.60

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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:03 PM
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My 68 low-compression 289 went from 195 to 317 HP (on engine dyno) with just porting the stock heads, flat-top pistons, cam, and a Holley 650, and upgraded ignition. I think you can get to 350 HP on a 69 351W with just a couple of those mods. I'd be surprised if you didn't hit 350 with just porting the heads (maybe planing them a little bit), opening up the exhaust manifold a bit, going dual exhaust, a 650 carb and a high-performance ignition.

Finally old enough to drive the car I want instead of the one I need.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 09:15 PM
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Block needs to be checked. Its a bit hard to believe that there is a standard bore 1969 351W still wandering through the universe. If it is actually standard bore, the block needs to be completely checked including the deck, mains and bore.

331 solid flat cam, rings and bearings break in run up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MNjb-AiWec

331 break in complete and is waiting on me to finish the body work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhnOk5FCBkE

One of the last tnt's on my 289 may she rest in pieces. It ran in the
high 11's low 12's when it was at its best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yWPZGfMT0
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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CHANGE OF PLANS! The engine is still stock bore but the bottom end has to be redone. Full build ahead. Now how to see the costs, just to hace an idea. How much more is it to build a stroker than a regular bore build?
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macstang View Post
Block needs to be checked. Its a bit hard to believe that there is a standard bore 1969 351W still wandering through the universe. If it is actually standard bore, the block needs to be completely checked including the deck, mains and bore.
Today we finshed disassembling the engine its still standard bore but it needs a full rebuild.
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 11:22 PM
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If you add up the cost of turning the crank which most likely is needed, getting over sized pistons and re-conditioning the rods, having the assembly re-balanced,,,well then the cast steel crank stroker kits with forged rods and pistons starts looking pretty good.

To get anything near the potential of the stroker's capability though, need better heads. It is almost the same for the stock heads too though. If you have them rebuilt with new guides, valves or at least a valve job and seats, flat milled to clean up the gasket surface, valve springs, retainers, machine for screw in studs and guide plates,,, might as well buy a set of beer can heads.

I didn't do that though. I have an ancient set of cast iron after market heads that I have ported and rebuilt 4 times now. They keep stepping up to the task. I did them up again for the baby stroker 331 sitting on my engine stand waiting on me to catch up. Maybe they won't make all the horsepower somebody's cnc aluminum heads make but it should be plenty for what I'm doing. This time I had them flow bench tested to check my port work and they look decent on the bench.

331 solid flat cam, rings and bearings break in run up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MNjb-AiWec

331 break in complete and is waiting on me to finish the body work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhnOk5FCBkE

One of the last tnt's on my 289 may she rest in pieces. It ran in the
high 11's low 12's when it was at its best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yWPZGfMT0

Last edited by macstang; 04-20-2017 at 11:29 PM.
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:15 AM
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In theory I cant get a cam with more than .500 lift do to stock heads right?
You sure can go >.500...unless you were thinking of keeping the pressed-in studs... I'd ditch those with anything other than a stock cam! Check P2V clearance always!

If you do go back w/ the 351 parts, I don't know if 351 pistons are similar to 289/ 302 stuff re: different compression heights. If so, do the math and make sure you don't wind-up with a combination of parts that prevent building decent compression.
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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You sure can go >.500...unless you were thinking of keeping the pressed-in studs... I'd ditch those with anything other than a stock cam! Check P2V clearance always!

If you do go back w/ the 351 parts, I don't know if 351 pistons are similar to 289/ 302 stuff re: different compression heights. If so, do the math and make sure you don't wind-up with a combination of parts that prevent building decent compression.

This lunati cam was the one i think suits the best

  • vertised Duration (Int/Exh): 282/292
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 218/228
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .496/.494
  • LSA/ICL: 112/108
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1500-5500
  • Includes: Cam Only
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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:01 PM
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This lunati cam was the one i think suits the best

  • vertised Duration (Int/Exh): 282/292
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 218/228
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .496/.494
  • LSA/ICL: 112/108
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1500-5500
  • Includes: Cam Only
IMO, that's a pretty small cam (it's hydraulic flat tappet??) for a 351 and w/o looking at the timing events, a 112LS isn't ideal for your stock heads (ported or not). I'd guess a decent roller (that still idles well and has decent vacuum) would make an addl. 30+ HP.

Summit carbs are pretty spiffy and should work fine. Depending on which way you go with the rest, the 750 vacuum secondary version might run better. The larger annular boosters restrict flow a bit so the carb is probably more like 720 cfm. In the Summit combo, if the intake is a copy of a Performer...I still say go Stealth. It's a great intake for bigger inch Windsors!

Good luck regardless man!!
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:19 PM
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If you add up the cost of turning the crank which most likely is needed, getting over sized pistons and re-conditioning the rods, having the assembly re-balanced,,,well then the cast steel crank stroker kits with forged rods and pistons starts looking pretty good.
it's not uncommon to have to do some machine work on aftermarket cranks/rods and even have to do a balance. so there could be costs with that. in addition, if a shop is doing the work, charges will occur for clearancing the block or checking clearance.

of course a lot of people probably just bolt the parts together.....
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