351c stroker vs 351 clevor (long) - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-25-2002, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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This may sound a little repetative and for that I am sorry but here's my question:

As of this afternoon I was at 89% sure I was going to rebuild my 351c into a 408 stroker. I have been calling and speaking to machine shops to get qoutes on block work, head work, and short block assmebly to help me decide if 1. I like the idea, and 2. I can afford everything.

So I am talking to this one guy, and he says before I give you a good faith estimate, let me tell you about this new 351 clevor I just built that I am selling:

This engine was built to drag race and has never been used, it is fresh. There was much done to this engine, it is as follows. This is a 351 Windsor block. It has 351 Cleveland 2V heads. The block was bored .030 and has special Clevor high compression pistons The rods have chrome moly bolts and have been resized. The crank was turned. The recipricating assembly was balanced. A high volume oil pump was used along with a heavy duty oil pump drive. A double roller timing chain set was used also. It has a new oil pan made to fit a Fox body, rear sump. A Competition Cams solid camshaft was installed with the following specs: Lift with 1.73 Cleveland rockers is .605 on both intake and exhaust and duration at .050 is 248 degrees again on both. The heads were completely rebuilt with stainless valves and the pedestals were milled for studs as well as the water modification for the Windsor block.

Now the price on this is amazing, and lower than the cost of the stroke kit. All it needs for completion that I don't have is pretty much intake and headers. Can someone give me some history of this type of motor, how it might run, overall opinions, etc.

I am not very good at understanding motor specs, but it sounds like one hell of a motor.

I ussually make up my mind and stay focused in one direction, but this guy made me think twice.

1965 Fastback 410c AOD - DT
1967 Fastback 347 T5- Cruiser
1968 Fastback 408w T5 - Brute
1991 GT Hatch - Fauxbra
1996 Dodge Viper GTS

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 02:55 AM
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Surprized nobody has answered [IMG]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/IMG] I would go with the stroker unless those 2v heads on the motor he is offing are from an Austrilian 302. It looks to be top quality and a good engine build. Will you tell us how much he want's for it? I have looked into a stroker and It's way out my price range. Im assuming you would run the 408 with DOAE 4v quench heads. That would be ALOT cooler than the 2v 351 standard stroke IMO. But Im pretty much a newbie. What do other think he should do??

But you would be unique running a clevor for sure
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 07:41 AM
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I have never seen a 351 Clevor run, but I have seen 302 Clevors. They are pretty impressive. I would think that the 351 with the Cleveland heads would be a great engine. I would go for it, if the price is affordable. Is he willing to give you a written guarentee on the engine...
With the 2 bbl. heads, I would think it would be very streetable. It should be like a Boss 351, but with more low end torque.....
If yo can buy the whole motor for the same as parts for a stroker, and he will warrenty his work, I would grab it up.....
Good luck......

If you are going to be dumb, you got to be tough.
'70 Mustang Fastback,460 powered
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 10:00 AM
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It sounds pretty cool. But a word or warning. Be sure to find yourself an intake. You need a special intake. I think they were called track boss. They stopped making them some some years ago. You do see them now and then for 302 Clevor's. I know they made them for 351's but I have never seen one. I had some info on them a number of years ago when I was going to build a 302 Clevor. I will try and find it tonight.

Mark Memmer

70 Calypso Coral Mach 1 351C 4V ARI Pacecar
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 10:01 AM
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If you haven't seen the motor, check it out on e(hay) item # 1846517765 ..................Clevors are better (In the US). Unless you can get your hands on a real Aussie 351 Cleveland block, not the junk that the guys sell on E(Hay).....Those are no different that a 2 bolt American block.
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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Update: I got an email back with a little more detail, but still less than I wanted, so I wrote back pressing for specifics on parts used and overall compression

Well then, what it is , is a 351 Windsor block with 351 Cleveland
Actually it is a 358, since it is .030 over. I suppose you don't know
nuances for each the Windsor and the Cleveland. Basically the Cleveland
a great top end and marginal bottom end. They have some oiling problems
with the crank sizes have proven to not be to reliable when pushed
Enter the Windsor. They are known for being rock solid on the bottom
end and
until lately ( all the new Windsor style aluminum aftermarket heads )
weak in the head department. Well then, the perfect graft. Put
heads on a Windsor block. That is what a "Clevor" is. There are some
modifications that must be done, but once that is taken care of, it's a
on. It takes special pistons to match the Cleveland style combustion
chambers. This setup uses 2V Cleveland heads as they are a MUCH better
choice for a street or even in my case, drag engine. The 4V heads have
ports. So huge they are too big. Those ports will hamper performance
5000 rpm. Above that, they take over. Well if you plan on using this on
street, how much of the time are you about 5000 rpm? I can honestly
say, a
well built 2V head engine will burn a 4V head engine on the street. The
reason is that the 2V head is no slouch. Hell it has ports and valves
size of the best SB Chevy heads!! So it's not like it can't be a hipo
it can. Basically this engine should haul ***. It has no been dynoed,
it is
brand new. And like I said, it is all balanced, rods done with chrome
ect. I need to sell it, but what a deal for someone. It would be a drop
for you and the rumpty rump from a 248 duration cam with 695 lift would
music. Did I paint a pretty picture? No, really it is a nice engine. I
wouldn't say so if it wasn't, but you don't know me [IMG]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/IMG]) I have a
intake that I would sell for $400, so at the start price, you are
$1300!! A lot less than you will spend and it will kick butt. What do

The intake is $$$$ at 400 bucks, but since he seems like he wants to stick with the auction sale rather than negotiate a price (his buy now is 1500 with another 400 for the intake)with a honest buyer that found him through another source I am loosing in faith. If he had just said 1500 for it all in his email (including intake) I prob would have bought it even if I don't use it [IMG]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/IMG]

1965 Fastback 410c AOD - DT
1967 Fastback 347 T5- Cruiser
1968 Fastback 408w T5 - Brute
1991 GT Hatch - Fauxbra
1996 Dodge Viper GTS

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 12:09 PM
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well, you already know where I stand on the issue (reference last night's chat session). Although on the surface it sounds like a great deal, the bottom line is you are still buying old technology. The advances made in head and intake design just in the last few years for the Windsor have literally blown away the Cleveland, no matter what rpm range you are talking about. The guy, in my opinion, also shows his ignorance concerning the 4V heads. I have basically the same head on my Boss 302 and with the factory drag pack 4:30 gears, I am pulling REAL hard by 3000 rpm, not the 5000 he alludes too.

You already have the good building blocks for a nasty, nasty Cleveland, including all the "residual" pieces (ie headers, the RIGHT heads, pulleys, intake, etc). With that 408 stroker kit, the right machining along with a good cam/valvetrain setup, you will have PLENTY of power to ruin many, many sets of rear tires on you 65. Try and find a good machine shop that works on Fords. I know when I was stationed in Maryland many years ago, I had the Ladd Brothers in the Laurel area do my work on Clevelands because they were the best at that time. Talk to you some more in chat tonight about this....


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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 12:33 PM
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I just don't get what I have been hearing for years, that 351C 4V heads don't make good low-end torque. Now, I'll admit I don't drive a lot of high performance cars but my little 1973 351C 4V CJ motor (open chamber heads) makes all the low end torque I am interested in. It will absolutely melt down the tires even with 3.25 rear gears and doesn't miss a beat and squalls into second and sometimes into third. It will stay with all but the badest of the new cars such as Corvettes and cars with turbo and nitrous. With a few very minor modifications these deep breathing heads will not embarrass you at crunch time.
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2002, 03:30 PM
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You're not that far from me. I'm in Northeast Phila. I had my 408c stroker done by L&M Engines in Hatboro Pa. It made 537 HP. and is very streetable and cruises great on the highway. Had gobbs of power. Check out their website and if you call them ask for Michael Rauscher and tell him Ray Jermyn sent you. RAY
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