351W heads on a 302 HELP! - Vintage Mustang Forums
Vintage Mustang Forum
HomeForumGalleryClassifiedsAbout UsAdvertiseContact Us
» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Go Back   Vintage Mustang Forums > General Discussion > Vintage Mustang Forum
Vintage-Mustang.com is the premier Ford Mustang Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-15-2004, 06:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 43
Default

I am going to put 351W heads on a 302 engine. Here are my questions: Which push rods are correct to use - 351W or 302? Which intake - 351W or 302? What other "surprises" should I be prepared for? Thanks.
devilstrip is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-15-2004, 06:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
RTM
Senior Member
 
RTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 4,511
Default

Not sure about the push rods but the 302 intake needs to stay a 302 intake because of the 302 block. Also 351W heads take larger head bolts so you need special bolts for 351W heads on a 302, I pretty sure on that one but I have never done the swap. I have only read about it.
RTM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 08:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
STANG32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Danbury, CT
Posts: 4,448
Default

ummm :: I trhought 351w's were 302 blocks w/351 heads on them, so if that is the case, doesn't he need 351 intake manifols? the 351 head is larger , so the angle will be greater in turn requiring the wider intake, hense the need for the 351 intake,
STANG32 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 09:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fair Grove, MO
Posts: 881
Default

The 351 W has a taller deck height, which in turn makes the engine block a little wider, which in turn reguires a 351 W intake manifold. I believe that everything else is pretty much the same and will bolt up. If you place a 351 W and a 289-302 intake manifold side by side you can definately see the difference in width.
69supercj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 09:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mstngjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,845
Default

Quote:
ummm :: I trhought 351w's were 302 blocks w/351 heads on them, so if that is the case, doesn't he need 351 intake manifols? the 351 head is larger , so the angle will be greater in turn requiring the wider intake, hense the need for the 351 intake,
It's the block that's bigger. Not the heads.

Lots of 289/302 combos around here with 351W heads on them.
__________________
2007 HD Softail Custom
mstngjoe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 10:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
67greengt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 236
Default

On my old 289 I had the 351w windsor heads. You use a 289 or 302 intake, and you don't need different head bolts, at least I used the ones that came off of the 289..
__________________
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...21_98_full.jpg

67 GT Fastback --- New project theme: Pro-touring Car. TKO600 Hydraulic Clutch Rack and Pinion Steering Strange Tru Trac diff FPA headers Custom Stereo 393w stroker
67greengt is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 10:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
DrStang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Palm Springs, California
Posts: 2,099
Default

Definately without a doubt use the 289/302 intake manifold. Also you could use the exhaust manifolds off the 302.
__________________
"A good friend will help you move. A great friend will help you move a dead body"

1965 A-Code Fastback
Built, September 14, 1964 (San Jose)
Viper red, White/red interior
TCP R&P, G Bar rear 4 link/w shockwaves
Global West Upper/Lower/Strut Rods
Ride-Tech Air ride
4 wheel Cobra disc brakes/Hydroboost
363 Stroker/Paxton Supercharger
Mass-Flo EFI
Owned since 1983
DrStang is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 10:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 282
Default

The bolt holes are 1/2" versus 7/16" on the 289-302, so shouldn't you use a special bolt, or at least use some type of hardened washer to capture more of the bolt head's area?
And yes, you use 289-302 pushrods and intake.
Want some pushrod fun? Try putting early heads on a roller block ::
__________________
'66 Coupe EFI T5, power Granada swap, homemade awesome power rack & pinion steering, great cruiser.
[color:"red"]Don't steal, the government hates competition!
[color:"blue"]Have you driven a Yugo lately?[/color]
http://pic13.picturetrail.com/VOL480...8/56907606.jpg
HughStonne is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 01:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
Art
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,671
Default

302 intake
302 pushrods
use hardened 7/16" head bolt washers* for the head bolts.

*(Tip=Big block chevy head bolt washers much cheaper than the special "stepped" Ford head bolt washers and work just as well!)
Art is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 02:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: A big cube farm!
Posts: 228
Default

OK... here's what you need based on my research notes:

• Use 69-73. 69-70 have smaller chambers
• C9OE-B/C9OE-D & D0OE-C/D0OE-G are 60cc heads, 1.84I/1.54E
• For comparison, std/hipo 289 are 52-55cc (54.5cc) and 1.78I/1.45E
• Use 351w intake gaskets! (fordmuscle newsgroup post)
• Use 6.905 pushrods
• the only mod you may have to do is drill four 1/8" holes in the head (supposedly some sort of steam passage)just put your head gasket against the head and youll see where they need to be drilled (putting the head on a bench exaust port down, youll drill a hole above each chamber) see http://www.fordmuscle.com/phpBB/view...=18961&forum=1

- have the deck checked and leveled, use screw in studs and pushrod guideplates
- your intake manifold gasklet sb matched to block, notheads
-• 351W has 16 intake manifold to Cylinder head bolts vs 289 which has 12
• 351W heads are ½” bolt holes; 289/302 uses 7/16”
• According to ford site (www.fordracingparts.com/(586)468-1356):
o M-6065-D289* 351W type heads on 289/302 block
Use when installing stock 351W, Ford Racing cast iron (M-6049-L302/L303) or Ford Racing aluminum head (M-6049-Y302/Y303/X302/X303/X304/X305) on 289/302 blocks. Kit features 20 ARP® cylinder head bolts
• Ford Pushrods for 351W heads on 289 (flat tappet) pn M-6565-C332. 6.905” vs 289 6.804” $22.95 from summit, not currently available
- Cylinder Head studs (screw-in) ARP 154-4005 $106.95 154-4005 for 289/302 w/351w heads
__________________
2 kids, big mortgage, house to reno... 'budget build' is my middle name!

65 Mustang Convertible. working on 393 + T5 conversion!
rnourse is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2004, 03:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
johnpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Roseville, California
Posts: 25,242
Default

*LOL* I'm loving all the different responses. Here's my experience, though (I have '69 351w heads on my 289 in the '66):

Use stock 289/302 pushrods (assuming you're not switching to a roller cam)

I've used the stock 289 intake gasket, but currently have the Felpro gasket that is made for this swap. I have no idea what "made for this swap" means, as I couldn't tell it from any other 289/302 intake gasket. On a side not, I have tthe exhaust crossover blocked to keep a cooler fuel charge.

To compensate for the larger combustion chambers, I went with 10:1 flat top pistons when building my engine, as I already knew I was going with these heads. This kept my 289 at/near the stock 9.5:1 compression, otherwise the heads could be shaved to keep from dropping the compression.

I examined all the options available for using the 7/16" head bolts with the 1/2" holes in the heads. The option I liked best was using the Trick Flow shoulders (they are hardened grade 8 washers with a shoulder to fit into the holes in the heads), and then used standard ARP 289/302 head bolts. This was the cheapest solution I found that I felt comfortable with. This solution kept my head bolt cost to under $90. There are solutions ranging from this on up to about $600 for those people that have more $ than brains.

Since there's no difference in the heights of the heads, any 289/302/351w exhaust manifold or header can be used. Most headers specify for a small block Ford, not a particular engine, since there's no difference. The only reason they sometimes differ, is that if you have the 351w block, you'll have less side to side clearance in the engine bay with the wider block. The heads don't make a hill of beans worth of difference in the exhaust.

BTW, my heads are the '69 ones with hardened valve seats, screw in studs, guide plates, hardened push rods and Harland Sharpe roller rockers. I've been quite happy with them.
__________________
VMF Jedi Knight who's spirit will be with us forever.
johnpro is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.