185cc vs 165 cc ARF heads for a 289/302: performance difference? - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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have an eye on a set on new in-the-box 185cc heads for a good price. I know everyone recs the 165cc heads: much difference in performance on a 289/302? Thanks. cb
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 06:41 PM
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I don't have AFR's, but have done a lot of reading about them. The 165 and the 185 can both come with 58 or 61cc combustion chamber, but the 165 has a 1.900 intake valve, whereas the 185 has a 2.020 intake valve. They both have a 1.600 exhaust valve, so there isn't really a big difference in the two heads save for the intake valve. If you have a chance to pick up some 185's for a good deal, then I wouldn't hesitate to get them.


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 06:50 PM
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As great as they are, the 185cc's are a lot of head for a 289/302. Especially if you have a stock to mild cam. To really utilze the power potential of the 185's, you'd have to spin that 289/302 pretty high and have other engine components that can match that. Unless you plan on changing cams, intake, and exhaust (assuming stock,) you'd be better off with the 165's.

-Ryan
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 07:15 PM
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Oh, I was assuming the engine was not a stock engine. Yeah, if it is, then use the cheaper GT40 heads.


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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeystash
As great as they are, the 185cc's are a lot of head for a 289/302. Especially if you have a stock to mild cam. To really utilze the power potential of the 185's, you'd have to spin that 289/302 pretty high and have other engine components that can match that. Unless you plan on changing cams, intake, and exhaust (assuming stock,) you'd be better off with the 165's.
Has tube headers, an Edelbrock carb and aftermarket intake (not sure model): willing to change cam to perk up the the ole 289.

BTW what cam would be recommended. Comp seems to be the consistent favorite, but wheich model with what charistics. And how about rocers?

This is a learning process TY cb
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 08:12 PM
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i have a 331 stroker w/ a xtreme energy 230/234 duration 509/512 lift cam, which heads would be best for my engine..it will get raced maybe 2 or 3 times a month if that..it has a 600 cfm carb c4 headers and high flow water pump..those are the other engine mods. i was thinking the 185's.?.?.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbering
Has tube headers, an Edelbrock carb and aftermarket intake (not sure model): willing to change cam to perk up the the ole 289.

BTW what cam would be recommended. Comp seems to be the consistent favorite, but wheich model with what charistics. And how about rocers?

This is a learning process TY cb
I still think that the 165's are your best bet. 185cc's is a lot of intake port volume for a 289/302 that doesn't see North of 6000rpms.

Cams are a science, it's hard to just pick one. All cam mfgs have tech departments that can assist you in picking the best for your engine.

-Ryan
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68austang
i have a 331 stroker w/ a xtreme energy 230/234 duration 509/512 lift cam, which heads would be best for my engine..it will get raced maybe 2 or 3 times a month if that..it has a 600 cfm carb c4 headers and high flow water pump..those are the other engine mods. i was thinking the 185's.?.?.
I think you could get away with 185's. I might upgrade to a 650cfm and 3000 stall converter if you do. That'll be a monster!

-Ryan
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 09:10 PM
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unless you want to notch pistons go the 165's, the 185's are too much for a 289 unless you are turning real high rpms. I'm a really big fan of TW heads, with twisted wedge heads you can have the 202 int valves, high velocity ports so it wont hurt bottom end torque/hp, they will perform better than 165's and will clear stock pistons with cams 220-224 duration @050 and they are about 300-400 cheaper than 165's.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph
unless you want to notch pistons go the 165's, the 185's are too much for a 289 unless you are turning real high rpms. I'm a really big fan of TW heads, with twisted wedge heads you can have the 202 int valves, high velocity ports so it wont hurt bottom end torque/hp, they will perform better than 165's and will clear stock pistons with cams 220-224 duration @050 and they are about 300-400 cheaper than 165's.
will the pistons have to be notched with the 185 heads?? cb
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-05-2007, 11:37 PM
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a lot of time they do it depends on cam etc......
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-06-2007, 01:38 AM
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I dont think the 185's will hurt you, performace wise.

Here is a comparison of the 165's vs 185's.

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article102/A-P1.htm

I will say, that this was on a 347 and not a 302, if that makes any difference in your decision.

The problem you will want to look into, is that with the larger valves of the 185's and assuming those are stock pistons, you would probably have to have your pistons flycut, which is not really fun. Shouldn't have that problem with the 165's from past researching and reading I've done on this forum and other forums.


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9in 31 spline 4.30 Winters Performance True Trac, 4r70w manual valve body and hardened gear set, 408w with 225 High Ports, FTI Solid Roller cam, Super Vic; Aluminum MMC driveshaft, 3" Exhaust.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-06-2007, 07:42 AM
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No offense but I find a little humor in this post. You're looking to purchase a set of 185 heads because you can get a deal on them. However how much are you going to spend to make this bargain work? Adding a bigger cam, possible flycutting pistons. Are you going to flycut used cast pistons? Now that you've torn the engine apart are you going to leave it as is or put new bearings in it? Would you bore the engine out and add fordge pistons because you'll have a high RPM screamer? Looser converter, steeper gears all need to be added in as well to make this package work.

Rebuilding and porting your stock heads would probable be sufficient but again praticality rears it's ungle head because the amount you'd spent on refurbishing the stockers, would be a very nice down payment on a set of aluminum. IMO, buy the right head to begin with, you be way ahead then trying to make a bargain work.

Tom


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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-06-2007, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskinhano
No offense but I find a little humor in this post. You're looking to purchase a set of 185 heads because you can get a deal on them. However how much are you going to spend to make this bargain work? Adding a bigger cam, possible flycutting pistons. Are you going to flycut used cast pistons? Now that you've torn the engine apart are you going to leave it as is or put new bearings in it? Would you bore the engine out and add fordge pistons because you'll have a high RPM screamer? Looser converter, steeper gears all need to be added in as well to make this package work.

Rebuilding and porting your stock heads would probable be sufficient but again praticality rears it's ungle head because the amount you'd spent on refurbishing the stockers, would be a very nice down payment on a set of aluminum. IMO, buy the right head to begin with, you be way ahead then trying to make a bargain work.
point well taken: but I do have a 302 HO sitting here. And the heads that I am looking at are $550 in the box vs $1375 for new.

Does this change the equation?
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-06-2007, 07:35 PM
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$550? Grab em up!! Send'em to me.
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