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Old 08-23-2008, 05:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I've seen conflicting answers (on Mustang forums,etc) regarding the questions below. I'd like to get a consenus. (66 Convertible,I6,manual drum brakes).

Which brake hardware is correct for the rear brakes? I bought the H7047 for the front and the H7048 for the rear. But wouldn't the H7047 also be for the rear since F&R brakes (66 I6 Conv) are both the same size (9 x 2 1/4)?

Is my distribution block correct for my application (installing a dual master cylinder...previously single mc) on manual drum/drum brakes?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...brakelines.jpg

Do I need a residual pressure valve? If so, where is it installed? Where can I buy one?

How do you remove the hub from the LF & RF brake drums...so I can put on the new drums?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...eanglezoom.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...rumcloseup.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...insideview.jpg

Where can I get a backing plate gasket for the LF and RF drum brakes? Is this also required for the rear?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...ckingplate.jpg

Which port on the master cylinder is for the front brake line? which one is for the rear brake line?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e.../MC67stang.jpg

Thanks

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1966 MUSTANG Convertible (I6,Sprint 200,3.3L,120HP,Original owner) (C-4 Auto rebuilt,Autolite 1100 carb) (Power steering,manual drum brakes: F&R,9 x 2 1/4) (Factory single exhaust,7.25" rear,2.83 ratio,P205/75R14 tires) (White power top,Candy Apple Red exterior,Red interior).
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1966 MUSTANG Convertible (6 cyl, Sprint 200, Original owner) (C-4 Auto rebuilt transmission, power steering, manual drum brakes, dual master cylinder conversion) (Single exhaust, 7.25" rear, P205/75R14 tires) (1991 restoration, Candyapple Red exterior, Red interior, White power top).
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Old 08-23-2008, 07:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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To replace the drum the hub has to come off. But you cannot just pound out the hub or studs because they are swedged or staked into place. This means the sholder of the stud is peened back with a special nut to lock the hub to the drum. You need a special cutting tool that fits over the studs threads and cuts back the peened sholder. Then the hub can be seperated and/or studs removed if you need too. An auto parts store with a good shop can usually handle this for you fairly cheaply. As far as the gasket for the backing plate goes, I guess you could check NPD, but I'd just use some RTV.
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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"Which brake hardware is correct for the rear brakes? I bought the H7047 for the front and the H7048 for the rear. But wouldn't the H7047 also be for the rear since F&R brakes (66 I6 Conv) are both the same size (9 x 2 1/4)?"

No idea, but your thinking sounds reasonable to me.

"Is my distribution block correct for my application (installing a dual master cylinder...previously single mc) on manual drum/drum brakes?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e..."

It is correct for the original car. It will complete negate ANY benefit of going to a dual cylinder if you reuse it. It is simply a splitter. You need to get a distribution block off of a 4 wheel drum brake Mustang from 1967 or later to use. It will keep the two circuits separate.

"Do I need a residual pressure valve? If so, where is it installed? Where can I buy one?"

If you buy an all drum brake dual master for a 1967 on up Mustang they will be built into the master cylinder.

"How do you remove the hub from the LF & RF brake drums...so I can put on the new drums?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e...
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e...
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e..."

What was said earlier about staking is correct, if the drum have never been removed. But you can simply put the drums/hub in a heavy duty press and they will eventually pop out - with a LOT of noise and force though. I would just let a shop do this one though.

"Where can I get a backing plate gasket for the LF and RF drum brakes? Is this also required for the rear?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e..."

Sorry, no idea.

"Which port on the master cylinder is for the front brake line? which one is for the rear brake line?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e..."

The back (closest to the fire wall) port always go the front brakes (this is true whether the car is drum/drum, disc/drum, or disc/disc setup.

John Harvey
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelriver
Which brake hardware is correct for the rear brakes? I bought the H7047 for the front and the H7048 for the rear. But wouldn't the H7047 also be for the rear since F&R brakes (66 I6 Conv) are both the same size (9 x 2 1/4)?
There has been a lot of talk about the rear brakes
on a I-6 vert, Are you sure that you have the wider
9 x 2 1/4 shoes on the back?
If they are then the hardware kits should be the same
except that the emergency brake has additional parts.
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelriver
Where can I get a backing plate gasket for the LF and RF drum brakes? Is this also required for the rear?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...ckingplate.jpg
I need them for my car also. What I am going to do
is to get some sheet foam like they use to wrap
furniture and cut them out. They are just used on the front.
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65 Fastback 2+2 Rangoon red, red interior
6 cyl, AT, A/C, P.S., P.B.

MCA# 00945

Previously owned Mustangs:
6F07C,5F07T,5F09A,6F08A,
5F07C,3F03F,1F03H,3F03H,
1F04F,3F01L,8F03Y,9F03W,
84 SVO,86 SVO
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think I know what you're talking about. You can find it also in some cheap padded mailing envelopes, they sometimes use it instead of bubble material.

Frank
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I've never had to worry about separating the hub from the drum, I've always bought drums with the hubs already attached.

Frank
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info guys.
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1966 MUSTANG Convertible (6 cyl, Sprint 200, Original owner) (C-4 Auto rebuilt transmission, power steering, manual drum brakes, dual master cylinder conversion) (Single exhaust, 7.25" rear, P205/75R14 tires) (1991 restoration, Candyapple Red exterior, Red interior, White power top).
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yeah Steel...

Search the VMF archives... 65Fastback6 and I had this exact conversation last week.

Apparently, the '64 thru '66 I6 Convertible came with both type rear brakes... The larger 9x2 1/4, and the regular (as other stang models), thinner 9x1 1/2. Take a picture of your rear brake drum, and we can easily tell you which ones you have, There is also another way though. If your rear drums are the same size as your fronts, Then you have the larger 9 x 2 1/4, and it takes the same drums and brake shoes as the front drums.

If the rear brakes and brake drums are thinner than the front, Then you have the 9x1 1/2 that is also on the I6 Coupe and I6 Fastback. My original '66 Convertible has the thinner 9x1 1/2 brakes which uses the 7048 Hardware combi-kit as you inquired about...so if you have the larger brakes in the rear which match the same size as your fronts, You would need the same drums as the front and the same 7047 Hardware combi-kit as the front.

As for the distribution block, I'm sorry, but You have the wrong one. You need the classis "H" distribution block that is used in the 1967 thru 1970 Manual drum brake cars. This distribution block has an internal pressure valve so that if you lose the front brakes, you will still have the rears and vice versa.. You only need a separate residual pressure valve if you have disc brakes in the front...so you don't need that here.. If you can't find the valve from a junker or on Ebay, NPD still sells them for $69 bucks last time I checked, but it is mis-labeled in the NPD catalog, so go by the picture, not what it says in the caption. You will also have to buy the small light switch as well, or you can just block it off with a brass fitting where the switch usually screws in. You will also need to bend and re-plumb your front brake lines. The original rear brake lines CAN be left in place if it is in good shape, but I would replace the rear line if it needs replacing, or simply replace it at a later date.

The port and chamber closest to the firewall is the front brakes on Fords. (Chevrolet is reversed, which causes alot of confusion!!)..

If your Front drums are original, You will know it...Because you WILL NOT be able to pry them off. You will need to have them pressed off by a reputable local machine shop. If they are re-usable, Enlarge the lug holes in the drums and Re-use them. Otherwise, You will have to replace the studs in the Front hubs OR, You will have to enlarge the holes on the new drums on a drill press about two or three sizes bigger to accept the original "staked" studs...Otherwise, It will not fit flush. I chose the later, and enlarged the holes on my drill press on my new Front drums...so they could clear the original "staked" studs.. Otherwise, You will have to change the studs, the front hubs, or both.. If you do it right, It will work out perfectly. This is a well known problem.. Ford originally "staked" the studs to the hubs...IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT NECESSARY to get them re-staked.. You can leave the new ones unstaked and the drums/hubs will be fine...It also allows you to take off the drum fast without taking out/off the hub when doing a normal brake shoe/brake job change. If you are really Super Safety conscious, You can use a stud safety "C" clip on one or two studs to secure the drum and allow for future easy removal.

Any questions??

Let us know what size rear brakes you have. 65Fastback6 and I are curious.

Thanks,

Tony Kovar
1966 Sprint 200 Convertible


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1965 Mustang Convertible 200cid I6, 3spd Manual
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I forgot to mention that I've done (4) of the Dual Master conversions on 4 of my past and present '66 Mustangs and they all worked out excellent and have shown firend how to do it as well...so if you have questions, Fire away... We can post pics of the conversion, Just ask.

Basically, You're putting a Ford 1968-1969 manual Brake system in your '65-'66 Mustang to replace the deadly "fruit-jar" original setup. As mostly '68-'69 parts are used..but others can be substituted if need be. I always use the 1968-1969 Ford Falcon Manual master cylinder because it has the same 1" bore as the original '65-'66 fruit jar master...and both fluid reservoirs are the same size, which hold more fluid. All you do is just bench bleed it, and bolt it in place of the fruit jar and retain your original brake rod from the fruit jar master.. Bend new front lines, and plumb in the new "H" distribution block..and re-bleed the entire system... That's all...

Thanks,

Tony Kovar
1966 Sprint 200 Convertible

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Old 08-25-2008, 09:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelriver
Where can I get a backing plate gasket for the LF and RF drum brakes? Is this also required for the rear?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...ckingplate.jpg

Which port on the master cylinder is for the front brake line? which one is for the rear brake line?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e.../MC67stang.jpg
Here is the backing plate gasket at CJ's

Quote:
How do you remove the hub from the LF & RF brake drums...so I can put on the new drums?
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e...
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e...
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/steel3riv e...
You will need to find a machine shop to press the hubs off the old drums and have the new drums pressed on.

Quote:
Which brake hardware is correct for the rear brakes? I bought the H7047 for the front and the H7048 for the rear. But wouldn't the H7047 also be for the rear since F&R brakes (66 I6 Conv) are both the same size (9 x 2 1/4)?
The front and rear would be the same in the convertible but the rear is going to have the emergency brake additional parts.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Note: My mother is the original owner, and my father took care of the car up until his passing in 1997. At that point I took over, which included replacing the front & rear shoes & wheel cylinders. The drums currently are 9x2 1/4 (front) and 9x1 1/2 (rear), as they were in 1997 (no brake work was done between 1997 and now). How do I know for sure that the 9x1 1/2 drums are correct? They may not be the original ones. They might have been replaced thinking that 9x1 1/2 was correct. Is there a way to determine the original rear brake size by looking at something on the car (backing plate,assembly,etc)? Or by looking at any paperwork that I have?
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:44 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I would say that if you have the 9 x 2 1/4 backing
plate and you put on the 9 x 1 1/2 brake drum that
the drum will not cover up all of the brake shoe
while the drum is fully seated on the axle.
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65 Fastback 2+2 Rangoon red, red interior
6 cyl, AT, A/C, P.S., P.B.

MCA# 00945

Previously owned Mustangs:
6F07C,5F07T,5F09A,6F08A,
5F07C,3F03F,1F03H,3F03H,
1F04F,3F01L,8F03Y,9F03W,
84 SVO,86 SVO
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Steel, My 1966 Sprint convertible came with the thinner 9x1 1/2 REAR brakes as well..and NOT the wider 9x 2 1/4 like the fronts. As stated earlier, The '66 I6 Convertibles came with both. As I said before, We do not know why this was done, and would love a reason why '66 I6 convertibles came with both sizes, but it may have been just simply a assembly line "Production change". We would all love an answer to this one...Maybe we will be lucky someday and get it.

Tony Kovar
1966 Sprint 200 Convertible
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1965 Mustang Convertible 200cid I6, 3spd Manual
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1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Convertible 200cid I6, C4 Auto
2007 Mustang V6 Convertible w/ Pony Package
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