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Old 11-19-2009, 06:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Differences between 289 and 289hypo?

I have a 289 engine just sitting in the garage and my son and I thought we would rebuild it after Christmas, or while on Christmas break. I found a site that lists all of the numbers differences (compression ratio etc) between the different year models of 289s, but not how the differnces were achieved. If someone wanted to rebuild an engine to 289 Hypo specs, what would have to change and more importantly, are there after market cams, heads, etc. that meet those specs. I know that the exaust manifolds are available, as is the Holley carburator, but what about other components. I dont need the actual reproductions, just parts that have the same lift, durtion, port size etc.

Any help is appreciated.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The K code hipo used a Ford 4100 carb and not a Holley.

The hipo's are a truly legendary engine but you can build a much superior engine these days with after market parts.

The heads will always be your limiting factoring. You really do not want hipo heads. They had the same size valves as the 289-2V.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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factory dual point distrbutor machanical advance only , special ford solid lifter flat tappet cam , special heads with oval shaped holes in the head where the pusrods go to act as guides and screw in studs , special thick outer ring harmonic balancer , autolite carb , special connecting rods with 3/8 bolts , high nodular iron crank , flat top pistons with 4 valve releifs. did i miss anything ? its ben a while maybe thats why ford called it "special" cause everthing wuz special i think compcams reproduces that hi-po cam , you could use 65 289 heads with the oval push rod hole and install screw in studs , boss 302 rods will work , balancer , 289 4v iron intakes are plentiful , autolite 4v carb is available , pistons are still made , crank , factory dual piont ? you could probably modify a single point or use a boss 302 dist.

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Old 11-19-2009, 07:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Cool. I have a stone stock 2bbl 289 in my other car with a hipo cam, sounds really mean with turbo mufflers! Can't beat the "typewriter" sound!

The heads were basically identical to regular heads, but with screw in rocker arm studs. Intake was the same, as you know, the carb (Autolite manual choke) exhaust manifolds were different. Crank was chosen at random and tested to ensure that it was a very good one, rods were slightly upgraded, main caps were a LOT beefier, dampner was different, unique cam, unique distributor, air cleaner, and some parts I dunno about.

The hipo dampner is common and cheap, the exhaust is common, a similar Autolite shouldn't be too hard to make/find, rods can be upgraded by a machine shop, so can the heads, use Mexican 302 main caps, and a regular distributor (simpler). Comp makes a modern re-do of the hipo cam, or you could choose some other solid lifter cam.

Really though, you can build a "better" engine than a hipo without trying too hard. Doing things like getting it balanced, running higher compression pistons, and getting it zero-decked can make a difference. Slap on all the Shelby parts and buy some ported heads, and you're really making power...add a custom cam and you're really cookin. Add a 150hp NOS kit and...oh heck, it never ends.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershifter2 View Post
special heads with oval shaped holes in the head where the pusrods go to act as guides
The 289 Hi-Po heads used threaded rocker arm studs with true guide plates for the push rods. Yes, there were oval push rod holes, but they were in the non-hipo heads too. The threaded studs and guide plates can be retrofitted to non-hipo heads with a little machining. The main difference that can't be replicated are the cast in spring pockets for the valve springs.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I would highly recommend speaking with Iskenderian Cams. They still family owned and are the only mfg I know that still test 100% of all valve springs befor they leave the shop.

Comp is also one of several mfg's that seem to have more than the average cam wear break-in issues- I suspect it is caused by 1) chinese made cam billets and 2) lack of Parkerizing (the final crucial step to help break the cam in where the cam is heated in an acid bath that microscopically etches the metal surface and adds a very thin layer of graphite coating which allows the cam lube to hang onto and penetrate into the cam surface during cam break in.

The guys at Isky love to talk about your specific needs.- also something to consider, is due to changes in gasoline quality, etc, the original grinds are really not the "best" for a "driver" in today's world. Again, speak to the cam mfg and they can speak in much greater detail about this.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
The K code hipo used a Ford 4100 carb and not a Holley.
True- And an excellent replica of this carb, the best 4V carb ever made, is available from Pony Carb. I'll warn you, though, excellence comes at a price.

Quote:
The heads will always be your limiting factoring. You really do not want hipo heads. They had the same size valves as the 289-2V.
The biggest limitation was not the size of the valves, it was the poorly formed exhaust ports, which were identical to, and just as lousy as, the 2V. Fixing these ports is easy, and produces amazing results.

Quote:
factory dual point ? you could probably modify a single point or use a boss 302 dist.
The BOSS 302 distributor is far more rare than the C5OF-E 289 HP unit, since they were sold by the thousands over the counter as an upgrade into the 80's. The later "Motorcraft" version, no good to restorers, sells reasonably on eBay, yet only the tradmark is different.

Quote:
The hipo dampner is common and cheap, the exhaust is common, a similar Autolite shouldn't be too hard to make/find, rods can be upgraded by a machine shop, so can the heads, use Mexican 302 main caps, and a regular distributor (simpler).
The damper is available new, as is the hatchet weight for behind the lower timing gear (and special thin timing gear), the thick main caps are available new, too.

The exact repro cam, a legend in it's time, is also available new. Contact Glazier Nolan if you want to make it easy.

Quote:
The 289 Hi-Po heads used threaded rocker arm studs with true guide plates for the push rods. Yes, there were oval push rod holes, but they were in the non-hipo heads too.
No, the 289HP used the same slotted, not oval, guide holes as the 2V. No guide plate was fitted.

Quote:
The threaded studs and guide plates can be retrofitted to non-hipo heads with a little machining. The main difference that can't be replicated are the cast in spring pockets for the valve springs.
True, fitting threaded studs it Head Machining 101, you could almost do it yourself. The cast pockets can be simulated with spring cups.

So far, no one has mentioned the special springs with harmonic inner coils, or special retainers.

The water pump was a special high rpm deal with curved vanes, not really needed for you, and special high volume fuel pump, also not needed, and a special high volume lightweight fan, available new.

The HP also had chrome dipstick, chrome valve covers, and chrome air cleaner. An extremely versatile engine, and after fixing the exhaust port problem, powerful package, well worth replicating.

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Old 11-19-2009, 08:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hey, thanks alot guys. I knew this was the place to ask.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ooops, my bad on the guide plates!

However, slotted holes, oval holes...it's semantics. Not matter how you describe them, they WEREN'T the round holes!

Spring cups, while functionally serve a like purpose, AREN'T the same as the cast in cups..period! They are a distinct difference in the head casting which CAN'T be replicated.

The fuel pump, though different, was not a special high volume pump. Ford added an additional spring to the pump arm to allow better eccentric cam following at high rpm. Volume output was the same as a standard 289.

BTW 22GT, YOU forgot to list the larger alternator pulley!

I guess the a clarification of the true question by the OP would be, do you want to replicate the hi-po horsepower and durability, replicate a hi-po cosmetically, or accurately replicate a hi-po?
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershifter2 View Post
factory dual point distrbutor machanical advance only , special ford solid lifter flat tappet cam , special heads with oval shaped holes in the head where the pusrods go to act as guides and screw in studs , special thick outer ring harmonic balancer , autolite carb , special connecting rods with 3/8 bolts , high nodular iron crank , flat top pistons with 4 valve releifs. did i miss anything ? its ben a while maybe thats why ford called it "special" cause everthing wuz special i think compcams reproduces that hi-po cam , you could use 65 289 heads with the oval push rod hole and install screw in studs , boss 302 rods will work , balancer , 289 4v iron intakes are plentiful , autolite 4v carb is available , pistons are still made , crank , factory dual piont ? you could probably modify a single point or use a boss 302 dist.
i used the word "OVAL" cause they look exactly like an oval stock car race track from the air i just went out to geerage and looked at one yep oval but are they 1/3 mile or 1/2 mile like the old jackson international speedway

Last edited by supershifter2; 11-19-2009 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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And some stuff that's a bit more wierd:





IIRC, the generator K-coders had a larger pulley too. It's been awhile. OP, you can essentially build your engine with flattops, a Cobra manifold, 4100 (or small Holley/Carter/Edelbrock) and a mild solid lifter cam and it will mimic the K code engine. I pushed non-K-code parts into the 450hp range with good service life at the track. You shouldn't have any issues with the engine you want to build using the OEM block, crank and rods, as long as everything is checked out, machined properly and assembled correctly. Have fun!

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Old 11-20-2009, 02:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Sorry Super, I read your post to imply the heads were special because of the oval push rod holes. Ahh well!

Please take into consideration I shouldn't have posted my original reply when I did. I had just finished a 14 1/2 hour work day. My mind wasn't firing on all eight I guess!
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponyman66 View Post
Sorry Super, I read your post to imply the heads were special because of the oval push rod holes. Ahh well!

Please take into consideration I shouldn't have posted my original reply when I did. I had just finished a 14 1/2 hour work day. My mind wasn't firing on all eight I guess!
The quality (and spelling) of my info degrades noticeably when I haven't had coffee. The alt pulley is available in excellent repro, or functional aluminum. Ford used it later on the BOSS.

You can do a very good upgrade without all the expense of big rods, etc.

Edelbrock 600 manual choke carb
Performer RPM manifold
C9OZ-6250-C hydraulic 289HP cam
Stock distributor recurved to performance specs
Stock heads with port-matching to a pair of
289HP exhaust manifolds

This would be fine for the street, it just won't double as a weekend racer.

You could add the chrome valve covers and air cleaner for "the look".

The port matching is no big deal, probably the single best thing you can do to a SB. You can see here it doesn't require going deeply into the port, either, this is a 289HP head that's been cleaned up:



I did this to my 289HP, both heads, and the exhaust manifolds, in about 2 hours. Afterward, it felt like I had a hotter cam.

Last edited by 22GT; 11-20-2009 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pprince View Post
The hipo's are a truly legendary engine but you can build a much superior engine these days with after market parts.

.
I agree..271 hp is pretty easy to surpass with todays modern intakes,camshafts and aftermarket heads..
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