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Old 12-28-2010, 11:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default T5 Conversion Help

I have done a bunch of searching and there seems to be too much info on this swap, everyone has different opinions and I need a few questions answered. I have a 6cyl 1967 mustang, it has a type 3.03 3 speed manual and I want to convert to T5. Car has 3.20 rearend if that matters.

Which Tranny T5 or T5-Z?

Is my bellhousing the same used for the V8 car? And will I need an adapter plate?

What Flywheel? Can I reuse mine?

What clutch? Throwout Bearing? Pilot Bearing?

As for clutch linkage what do I have to do? What clutch fork? Reuse mine?

If anyone has part numbers for all this stuff I would greatly appreciate it I just want to swap as simple as possible. I plan on buying a brand new tranny and new clutch, But I dont want to get all involved in clutch cable conversions and all that other stuff,just want a bare bones swap with no bells or whistles, all help will be appreciated thanks.
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I am in the middle of doing the same swap. Here's my writeup on it. It should be really straightforward for you, since you have a 67.

I also have a 6-cylinder, and you won't need the beefier V8 T5. You can re-use your flywheel, if you have the 9" flat one. I am ordering my clutch and bearings from Rockauto. You can reuse all the clutch linkage as well, including the clutch fork.

You will need an adapter plate - get the "C6 block" or "dual pattern block" adapter, and you'll have to make one modification to it.

PM me if you've got any questions.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You will need an adapter plate - get the "C6 block" or "dual pattern block" adapter, and you'll have to make one modification to it.
No need to do that. T5 adapter plates for 64-65 170/200, 66 200, and 67-70 200 are available. Just pick the right one, and bolt it on.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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With all T5 conversions, the driveline angle of 3 degrees is not preserved unless you shim up the trans and notch about 2" out of the top of the trans tunnel upper crossmember (the crossmember that is spot welded to the tunnel). I suspect that this is the case with a 6 cyl conversion as well.

If the driveline angle is not fixed you can have fan clearance problems and driveline vibrations.
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430 HP @ 6500...not too shabby for old school heads!


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Old 12-29-2010, 12:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It would be a lot less work, and no damage to the car, if you simple wedged the rear axle to the correct matching angle.

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Old 12-29-2010, 01:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That only affects the pinion/driveshaft angle and not the engine/transmission angle that I believe Tracy is referring to.

The 2 aftermarket transmission crossmembers I have direct experience with both had problems with allowing the rear of the transmission to be mounted at the right height. In both cases, for my T5 and for my TKO 600, I had to use washers to get the tail up sufficiently high. By the time I had the tail up to where the engine was back at the factory angle I had roughly an inch of washers.

I did not have to remove the tunnel reinforcement for the T5 but I did for the TKO.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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That only affects the pinion/driveshaft angle and not the engine/transmission angle that I believe Tracy is referring to.
Yeah, but there's nothing sacred about that angle. If the engine tilts back another 1, so what. Match that new angle with a similar adjustment at the rear, and you're golden.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah, but there's nothing sacred about that angle. If the engine tilts back another 1, so what. Match that new angle with a similar adjustment at the rear, and you're golden.
I remember my AutoTech Instructor telling us that the slip yoke to drive shaft angle and the pinion to drive shaft angle should not differ more than 4-5* else you get drive train vibrations. There were alot of Off road guys in my classes so he would constantly receive questions regarding lifts, and he would stress their negative effects on drive shaft angles.


I never did any angle adjustments when I put my 351c with the T5 in my HT. I Just used the old style cast motor mounts, and a swap trani mount and cross member, also used a jmc hydro clutch kit( aren't offered any more). Never got any vibrations all the way to 5k, never went pass that because I doubt the 8" I have in that car would hold. I doubt drive shaft angles changed much throughout the earlly mustang years don't really know, but eh, if it ain't broke, don't fix, right?

Id recommend a WC T5 out of a 89 and newer 5.0 mustang, That's what I have, they're good to 300 lb/ft torque from what I've read. I also used the Fox body bellhousing, but I wouldn't recommend this if you plan on putting out some good power, I noticed I was getting some small stress cracks forming near the reinforcement ribs.

As far as fly wheels goes, you'll need a 157 tooth 28oz imbalance for the early sbf engines. and a 157 tooth 50oz flywheel for the later 5.0l engines. I believe the 5.8l cobras of the 90's also used the 28oz flywheels. And yes you can use your old fly wheel as long as you have the right balance and its a 157 tooth, so you can run the fox bell housing and the smaller fox high torque starter, if you want. If not they do offer the spacer kits for early bell housing to T5.

Id recommend the newer style clutch bolt pattern, so you can have a wider selection of clutches, as well as being able to use the factory ford diaphragm pressure plates, not the 3 pronged pressure plates the older ones did.

Hope this helps a bit.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Yeah, but there's nothing sacred about that angle. If the engine tilts back another 1, so what. Match that new angle with a similar adjustment at the rear, and you're golden.
Sure you can do that, but I certainly would not and it could potentially be bad advice for those folks with minimum experience. That 1 degree puts the back of the trans 5/8" to 3/4" lower and front of the engine 5/8" to 3/4" higher...significant for sure. Lots of potential issues by trying that approach. Let me see how many I can list off the top of my head:

fan interfering with the shroud or something else
the air cleaner clearance is reduced
linkage may be messed up or may bind
carb is not level
header interference
The higher the opposing angles, even if they are the same, the sooner vibration sets in as I recall

It bothers me that the conversion kit providers don't mention this although many who purchase their kits have problems resulting from this little omission. Notching the top of the upper trans crossmember is so darn easy and low risk. (there have been spot welds immediately on either side of the area to be notched in every case i've seen or heard about...and even if there weren't I have to think hard about what the ramifications could possibly be since the xmember is spot welded all over the place).
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430 HP @ 6500...not too shabby for old school heads!


'65 Fastback

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Old 12-29-2010, 04:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It bothers me that the conversion kit providers don't mention this although many who purchase their kits have problems resulting from this little omission. Notching the top of the upper trans crossmember is so darn easy and low risk. (there have been spot welds immediately on either side of the area to be notched in every case i've seen or heard about...and even if there weren't I have to think hard about what the ramifications could possibly be since the xmember is spot welded all over the place).[/quote]

Thanks for pointing out a few things. I did use an after market radiator that was thicker than oem, with march underdrive serpentine pulleys, as well as a spal radiator fan for extra clearance. The 351c is a bigger block than a 289, and I had suffice clearance. Now maybe if you have a water pump drive mounted fan then you may or may not have a clearance issue, lets see how you can help.

How did you go about installing your kit, and adjusting driveshaft angle aswell as making it all work in a fashion that wouldn't cause your car to vibrate itself into destruction. Also how did you go about installing your T5z, which the thread starter is considering, In a fashion which would keep your carburetor level, fan clearance in the safe zone? What did you mean about cutting the upper transmission cross member? Aswell as what linkage did you adjust to prevent binding? This is a T5, it does not have external linkage, just a **** lever that sticks out the tail up into the passenger compartment, the linkage to the carburetor is pretty straight forward, just the part that pivots on the firewall and connects to a pedal, aswell as the adjustable rod that links straight to the carburetor. I highly doubt that would very much adversely effect the clearance between the hood and the air cleaner. I didnt have clearance issues with an aftermarkent xcelerator intake, and a 670 holley, on a 351c, which again is a larger taller block than 289, but still a SBF, with the aid of " original ford oem cast motor mounts off early 65 models " which lowers the engine an inch, no cutting needed.

I mean you are pointing out possible problems that could occur, but how did you go about preventing/fixing any problems from happening? Are we trying to help a fellow member, or nudge him off to the corner and discouraging a person from accomplishing something? Lets help with input as well as answers, or solutions we worked on to completing our similar builds.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Woops misspelled shift lever
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I mean you are pointing out possible problems that could occur, but how did you go about preventing/fixing any problems from happening? Are we trying to help a fellow member, or nudge him off to the corner and discouraging a person from accomplishing something? Lets help with input as well as answers, or solutions we worked on to completing our similar builds.
It is not hard to put the engine/transmission level back to the factory level and it avoids all those potential problems Tracy pointed out. It is a no-brainer to just do it. That is how you avoid the problems.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Thank you for all the responses, I still have two questions. If I use a t5 bell,then do i have to switch to a cable clutch? Also whats your opinions on brand new trans versus a rebuilt,and where is a good place for a rebuilt. I plan on buying a new tranny but have been kicking around a rebuild? I plan on by the end of summer have a 400 horse 351w in the car and I'm concerned with the t5 not handling the torque, any thoughts?
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 63a351c View Post
I mean you are pointing out possible problems that could occur, but how did you go about preventing/fixing any problems from happening? Are we trying to help a fellow member, or nudge him off to the corner and discouraging a person from accomplishing something? Lets help with input as well as answers, or solutions we worked on to completing our similar builds.
?

I just pointed out a potential problem that just about every T5 conversion kit has and I am not helping? Someone suggests changing the pinion angle to compensate and I responded by pointing out what problems can remain and I am not helping?

If you want to know what I did, I shimed up my trans to restore the driveline angle as mentioned in my first reply to this thread (did you see that by the way?). This cannot be done without first notching the upper trans crossmember because the T5 housing will interfere.

Since we are on the subject of helping out, I used 1/4" by 1 1/2" aluminum stock with bolt holes drilled into both of them for the transmount bolts.

3/4" is required to restore the driveline angle back to 3 degrees. The after market trans xmember was a Modern Driveline unit

If you don't think a 3/4" higher engine could cause problems with stock throttle linkage or air cleaner to hood clearance (aftermarket intake) or the other problems I mentioned, then good luck.
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65 Mustang FB, 331 custom built with 289 H beam rods and 383W piston, 282S cam, self ported '70 351w heads, Dougs Tri-Y headers. 1.7 shaft rockers and 26986 beehives. Hurricane Single Plane and custom 750 HP. T5z and 3.50 9" posi rear.
430 HP @ 6500...not too shabby for old school heads!


'65 Fastback

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Old 12-29-2010, 10:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Sure you can do that, but I certainly would not and it could potentially be bad advice for those folks with minimum experience. That 1 degree puts the back of the trans 5/8" to 3/4" lower and front of the engine 5/8" to 3/4" higher...significant for sure.
Impossible. For a tailshaft end drop 3/4" to cause the front of the engine to rise 3/4", the motor mounts would have to be dead center between the water pump and the slip yoke. They aren't. It's more like 10" vs 40". That means a 3/4" drop at the slip yoke would be a 3/16" rise at the pump. That's a rounding error.

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