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Old 10-05-2011, 02:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Confused One wire alternator and Electric choke?

I'm in the process of installing a one wire alternator and it doesn't have a stator terminal. I had my electric choke hooked up there on the old alternator. Any suggestions for an alternate hook up?
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What carb/car you running? You should have a starter relay where you can connect the choke to.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It's a Summit, very similar to the Holley 1850.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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My $.02. There is only one spot on 65-66 Mustangs that have power while the ignition switch is on only and that's the pink resistor wire and more specifically the black wire off the switch just before the bullet connector to the pink wire. On my 66, I'm running a 1406 with electric choke which I had connected there. I was having some issues with the choke not really working right along with some ignition problems I thought with the Petronix. Since this wire was only intended to supply power to a coil, it's not really a large gauge wire and has a long route back to the battery over all. This creates a lot of voltage drop. I bought a used GM style HEI distributer off ebay as well. You can have a nice hot spark if you have crap going in. I ran a #10 wire fused by a 30 amp fuse to an auxiliary 6 circuit fuse block. The #10 wire is switched by a relay that is controlled by the black wire off the ignition switch and the pink wire is in retirement. I ran a #12 wire from the fuse block to the distributor and a #14 to the choke, both on their own fuse. The choke works better then it ever has and the distributor works great.

Personally I wouldn't tap off the stator wire anyway as the choke adds an addition load and voltage drop to the stator field.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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As far as I can help you, I have a single wire alt. and Holley carb. I just hooked up my electric choke to the starter relay. THINKING it's on the ignition side. If there's a way to hook it up to your ignition, just go that route. Or you can hook it straight to the wire to the coil that leads back to the ignition switch.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The reason I had it on the stator in the first place was that's where Ford put it in later years when they used elctric chokes.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ahh ok. I had the original Carb but mine was manual.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't have the stock starter relay as I have newer mini starter with the relay on board.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Just connect it to the wire on the coil that leads to the ignition then. I guess you could hook a wire to the battery, but it's up to you.
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Factory Ford electric chokes are designed to operate on 6 volts. The aftermarket Holley chokes, and the Carter/Federal Mogul/Edelbrock carbs are 12 volt units. With the Ford unit, the alternator must be rotating, and outputting current for the choke thermostat to be heated. With the others, the key merely has to be on. In the late '70s, early 80s, GM electric chokes operated through an oil pressure switch. They too were a 12 volt unit.

The Ford alternator can be used in this way because the stator is wound in what is called a Wye configuration. Sometimes called a Star, this style of winding produces higher voltage at lower rpm. The stator terminal on the alternator is the common connection for all three of the stator windings. I won't go into the operation of the alternator at this time, unless requested, but safe to say, at any point in the operation, two windings are connected in series. The midpoint will output one half the total voltage. The initial usage of the stator connection was to supply current to the field relay in the regulator to turn off the warning light. The use as a current source for the choke heater came much later.

Using 12 volts to operate a choke heater designed to operate with 6 volts will greatly shorten its lifespan.

If your single wire alternator stator is wound in Wye/Star configuration, a local rebuilder may be able to set up the alternator with a stator output. If as I suspect, the alternator stator is wound in the other configuration, Delta, then a stator tap is not possible.

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Old 10-06-2011, 09:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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PrecisionTrans is spot on. If your choke needs full battery voltage, pull it from anywhere but the ignition circuit. Radio or any other hot in run feed. Nothing else should ever be wired to the coil/ignition circuit. This is compounded in a Ford vehicle by the stock resistor wire already built in.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Here's how I'm going to do it on my friend's '67 Galaxie:

The brown wire at the starter solenoid has reduced voltage when the engine is running, but 12v during cranking. He's going to run an MSD setup and needs a full 12V source for that, too.

So, I'm going to unhook that brown wire from the solenoid and use it to trigger a relay. That relay, then, will provide a full 12V whenever the ignition is on. It doesn't take a full 12v to trigger a nominal 12v relay. The 8v or whatever is on that wire is enough to do the job.

I'll take the output of that relay to a junction post where I can connect whatever devices under the hood need a full 12v when the ignition is on. That will include the choke, the MSD box, and the fan relays in our case.

If you need to maintain the function of the resistor bypass (brown wire), you can just splice into that brown wire instead of disconnecting it altogether.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash View Post
Here's how I'm going to do it on my friend's '67 Galaxie:

The brown wire at the starter solenoid has reduced voltage when the engine is running, but 12v during cranking. He's going to run an MSD setup and needs a full 12V source for that, too.

So, I'm going to unhook that brown wire from the solenoid and use it to trigger a relay. That relay, then, will provide a full 12V whenever the ignition is on. It doesn't take a full 12v to trigger a nominal 12v relay. The 8v or whatever is on that wire is enough to do the job.

I'll take the output of that relay to a junction post where I can connect whatever devices under the hood need a full 12v when the ignition is on. That will include the choke, the MSD box, and the fan relays in our case.
I've done this on a couple of cars. It works well if you don't mind the relay and extra wiring under the hood.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks guys, I think I'll pull it from the radio even though it means another hole in the firewall. The choke can't pull much power since the wires supplied with the carb are only 16or 18 guage.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrecisionTrans View Post
Factory Ford electric chokes are designed to operate on 6 volts. The aftermarket Holley chokes, and the Carter/Federal Mogul/Edelbrock carbs are 12 volt units. With the Ford unit, the alternator must be rotating, and outputting current for the choke thermostat to be heated. With the others, the key merely has to be on. In the late '70s, early 80s, GM electric chokes operated through an oil pressure switch. They too were a 12 volt unit.

The Ford alternator can be used in this way because the stator is wound in what is called a Wye configuration. Sometimes called a Star, this style of winding produces higher voltage at lower rpm. The stator terminal on the alternator is the common connection for all three of the stator windings. I won't go into the operation of the alternator at this time, unless requested, but safe to say, at any point in the operation, two windings are connected in series. The midpoint will output one half the total voltage. The initial usage of the stator connection was to supply current to the field relay in the regulator to turn off the warning light. The use as a current source for the choke heater came much later.

Using 12 volts to operate a choke heater designed to operate with 6 volts will greatly shorten its lifespan.

If your single wire alternator stator is wound in Wye/Star configuration, a local rebuilder may be able to set up the alternator with a stator output. If as I suspect, the alternator stator is wound in the other configuration, Delta, then a stator tap is not possible.

Don
The voltage across any one winding of the three measured from the common connection on the stator terminal to where the diode connects will be the voltage measured from any two connections of the windings where they connect to the diodes divided by 1.73. There's a voltage drop across the junction of the diode that is about .7 of a volt. To get 13.8 volts out put from the alternator you need 14.5 volts of AC voltage. If you take this 14.5 volts and divide by 1.73, you'll get 8.4 volts. This is a 3 phase calculation, you would not be using the number 2 in any calculation for either amperage or voltage with the wye. The only time you'd use the number 2 in 3 phase would be in a Delta, more specifically in a commercial building application for a lighting circuit. You would take one of the transformers and use a middle tap to get 120 out of the 240 volt winding which at this point is single phase power source. The 1.73 multiplier would rear it's head if you were careless and went to use another one of the two remaining transformers out puts where you'd get 208 volts to the neutral instead of 120 volts.

Amperage how ever will always be the same whether you measure from the common stator connection to any winding end or between windings themselves. If the alternator was wound in a Delta, voltage across the windings would equal voltage measured between connection points and the amperage would be divided by 1.73.

With the Wye connection you will be using lower voltage in the field to produce the final 13.8 volts then the Delta connection. This means you can use a smaller and lighter field assembly since this is what it rotating and not the armature since it's fixed and stationary. The delta has the advantage that you could wind it it a lighter gauge wire to to the same job since the winding amperage is multiplied by 1.73 to get the output amperage.
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