I would bet money that I can start putting more and more nitrous in my engine until something breaks, and my money would be on a broken block. What good would a $1700 crank have done?
This is simple, when you buy a $1700 crank you buy an aftermarket engine block. When you buy the aftermarket engine block and have that nice crank then you buy the nice rods. Once you have that nice crank, rods and block then you buy nice custom made pistons specific to what you are doing but sure and buy the box of 10 pistons so you have extras for "just in case situations". You then get the nice custom solid roller cam and do not cheap out on those solid roller lifters either because the cheap ones do break. I have been down this road with my last 347 and when all said and done easily had a $15k motor when pricing it out from oil pan through upper intake.
Originally Posted by beechkid
You just don't go cheap on the parts that crate/generate the most strain on/in an engine....ever see a cam or crank split in two...I have! Then look at the guy who owns it and tell em, you have a $3k pile of scrap metal. Was the $300 savings wirth it?
In my experience it is more than $300 and I have seen cheaper rods break, I have seen factory blocks split, I have seen pistons crap out in a variety of ways, I have seen lifters munch up and the list can go on and on. IMHO these cheaper stroker motors are not a whole lot more money over buying a freshly built stock motor so why not risk that extra money for some more power and quite possibly something that lasts just as well.
Originally Posted by beechkid
1. because no one in their right mind would buy and install a cast crank in a stroker engine......yes its cheap and there is a reason why.
At one point in time we street raced a number of cars with 347 motors in them and used cast cranks. Only ones that ever "broke" were the ones with giant superchargers running a ton of belt tension and were trying to yank off the harmonic balancer at all times. When we graduated to better blocks is typically when we graduated to better rotating assemblies. Depending on my budget, power goals and overall car goals then I'd not think twice about doing it again.
not dating my knowledge, showing experience.......those who not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.....
HTC was sold in the late 80's IIRR, then closed in early 2000, leaving Crower and sullivan as one of the few who still build strokers......
see my followon post about what I am still doing today...including fabricating one-off suspension components that today's "Leaders" said couldn't be done.....John Hotchkis himself was even surprised when we took a prototype out for a spin!
your knowledge may have been accurate in the 70's, but i believe it's dated.
i think people would agree that ford made some questionable design/business decisions in the past.
would it make any sense to listen to a person who makes statements like they don't recommend a 2012 mustang because the quality of the 1976 Mustang II was questionable?
in my opinion it doesn't. perhaps scat had issues in the 70's. that doesn't automatically imply their products are still poor quality and don't belong in any application.
i agree you shouldn't forget the past. however, you shouldn't base all your decision's on the past. if that was the rule, i'm sure people would still hate me today for the things that happened in grade school.
i'm still trying to understand what fabricating suspension components has to do with the fact a scat crank isn't recommened.
Crower and Sullivan are one of the few who build strokers? This doesn't make sense to me either.
Yep...that's it. Buy a set of pivot balls as well.
Originally Posted by beechkid
Sorry but having watched these so called experts down at Riverside in the late 70's/early 80's, I guess it boils down to this..........
I'm not so much concerned about the 70s/early 80s. What does this have to do with 2012? I would never buy a late 70s Mustang, but the 2012s are pretty awesome!
If the company you bought dog food from, distributed poison food that killed your dog, would you go back and buy from them again? I wouldn't...and if you heard on the news 10 years later, this same company sent out a bad shipment of food killing a few dogs, would that surprise you....of course not, so why would anyone not apply these same value systems or more importantly, respect those who have seen, experienced and are simply stating their personal experiences and provide recommendations based upon these values systems to others- nothing more, nothing less.
Another expample of weight vs risk, although I wouldn't consider it a fair comparison. As stated, I have not seen an engine fail that can be traced back to a Scat crankshaft failure, so in your analogy, my dog is alive and well....
And whether a person builds their own engine or not is really not the point, there are business that for 40 years have excellent reputations with no tarnishment of any type and when issues arise, they back up the customer 100%...........so why would I or anyone recommend a company whose reputation or history has readily known/recognized cyclic issues as compared to another whose same business does not- that just does not make any sense to do otherwise to anyone with an IQ above an ice cube!
So you're telling me that who assembles the engine would have nothing to do with failure rate!? Hahahahaha. I can't even comment on that. Your ice cube has melted......
Sure, there are also companies today in the aftermarket who are well known for their family's side businesses, including drug dealing and similar parallel industries, they have a great marketing campaign & product, many buy & use their products, but my family will not support these businesses in any way, shape or form.....but that's just me.
I'm glad your engine runs great, for me, I'm still building specialty items (even for the modern vehicles), I still speak with Ron Iskenderian (Ed's son) periodically and even make a trip to his shop to pick up an item or two, and my father, still has the lobe from the 3rd camshaft Ed ever ground in his garage.....they picked up a cam from a junkyard, put a grind on it, shoved it in a flathead my dad was building and guess what, it had a small fracture inside that couldn't be seen, the cam slit in half & cracked the block in two......most even back then would have thrown the block away but there was a guy named "Kelly" who just got out of the navy who claimed he could weld up anything......he use to weld up the engine blocks in the ships.....even my dad couldn't believe it but had nothing to loose......that engine turned 149 mph in 1949, then in 55' turned 211 in a belly tank streamliner driven by Billy Stecker, and Kelly, started a little mchine shop called "Kelly's Block Welding Service" in west Los Angeles, and did a lot of machine work with little know racing giants such as Ed Reath, I could go on, but you get the point. and yes, there are many cam mfgs who are eager to provide custom grinds to the everyday guy....do a search on this forum & you will see many posts from ol timers (current posts) verifying what others claim does not exists.
I'm happy you know these people, and they work for you. Name dropping doesn't do a lot for me, but apparently it makes you happy, and that's good. Scat makes affordable parts for the average build, and they work. The 3rd cam Ed ever ground, and engine in 1949, and then what it did in 1955 have no effect on that.
I am in Edmond! I see you are from Tulsa....always cool to see people that are nearby.
The heads are Ford cast heads. If I opt for aluminum (347 w/ aluminum is about $800 more) then I think you get either Dart, custom BluePrint heads or Edelbrock. I don't think BluePrint has a Ford head so it is probably one of the others.
I am actually considering the Atomic EFI to fuel this engine. Probably later on down the road though.
Having built a 331/334 with custom parts, your head choice is very important, whether it be iron or aluminum, Aluminum will save weight, allow a little more compression and advance for a given build spec. My old Windsor JRs, together with a custom roller setup, and 600 Eddy, made 348 RWHP. I felt this was pretty darn good for that build. These days, I'm running TFS heads and bigger custom cam and making 392 RWHP, but, with different carbs.
Iron heads can and will make power, just don't dismiss how important their choice is in the build. After you decide what you expect from your engine, the heads are your first purchase.
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That price is close enough to buy a Ford Racing crate motor, full roller with aluminum heads.
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Yes, heroin & coke....the transporters were used to routinely to haul the shippments to Bonneville & El Mirage and distributed there. this was a "common practice" up through the 70's. Are these companies still in business, run by family still- yes, will we engage in any busness dealings with them, no. However their franchise nationwide tune-up centers went away......
I'm not so much concerned about the 70s/early 80s. What does this have to do with 2012? I would never buy a late 70s Mustang, but the 2012s are pretty awesome!...
The late 70's is when SCAT was started.........I made no mention of them building parts for V8's....thats when they were doing "VW Bugs"; in the 80's they started doing V8's, yes when a crakshaft fails, breaks in two, in multiple vehilces on multiple occaisions, with multiple builders its directly related to the crankshaft builder....what does this have to do with 2012- credibility- sure, some people will buy products from mfgs that have had known defects, causing damage, death & injury, if you feel ok about it, go ahead.....personally, I'm not big on Scat, Firestone or Comp products because of their long tenuous history of QA issues and not standing behind their products....BTW, if you take basic math and count all of the camshafts that have been mfg by the aftermarket since 1950 through today, you will find 1) Comp has a very small market, 2) the majority (80%+ per Comps business plan) of customers are limited budget home-builders looking to save money, buy through online/catelog sources and typically are single/short term duration customers as compared to Isky, Howard, crower, etc whose primary customer base are return customers with 10+ years of history with each company.
Lastly, looking at the total aftermarket cam sales, comp by industry comparision appears to have more cam lobe related failures than any other mfg whether you look at industry averages, means or other ratio's. Just mathmatical basics.....nothing more, nothing less.
So you're telling me that who assembles the engine would have nothing to do with failure rate!?
Of course not and I never made or inferred such a comment..............
as I have seen you engage in similiar repeated posting on other websites, you are just a paid blogger for Scat, nothing more, nothing less.............................
Im sorry.....you've seen me engage in similar conversations, regarding scat, on other sites? A paid blogger? Hahaha.... That's hilarious
Every single time someone mentions the word "camshaft," you copy and paste long post about how bad comp is, and their failure rates are, while campaigning for you companies. Who's the paid blogger here?
And I'd sure like to see where you get some of these percentages? Did you take a poll? Was it published somewhere?
What about the roller rockers with these aluminum heads? Recommend me using them or not necessary? They ship these engines with OE steel rockers.
I did some research on these flo-Tek heads and they are inexpensive, but they got pretty good reviews.
To try and stay on track....
Yes, stock rockers will be fine. They're good for 200,000+ miles on factory cars, why not an aftermarket engine?
I used rollers on my build, but I had a larger budget. No problems saving a few dollars here and there. Rollers don't give a whole lot of HP for the dollar anyway.
Just make sure you have the correct pushrod length.
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I am kind of copying the VMFer that had posted about buying a Tuff Dawg crate engine, but I wanted to give you all a little info on why I chose BluePrint. After months of research I came to the conclusion that Blueprint's 331 Stroker was the engine I wanted and I'll tell you why....
- 30 month, 50,000 mile warranty.
- Warranty covers parts and labor and if something happens to the engine and needs to be sent back, they cover R&R and shipping both ways.
- They are going to paint the engine blue.
- They dyno tune and test each engine before it is shipped to me at no additional cost. Ships with results. Gives you piece of mind that the engine will run when you put it in. Most places charge for that or won't do it at all, especially if you don't buy a turn key engine.
- They use new parts...SCAT crank, Keith Black pistons, etc.
- Hydraulic roller cam.
- They will convert it to a front sump setup.
- Customer service is great
Total cost to my door is around $3,400. They say about 20 days to complete a custom build or you can buy their preassembled crate engines. I elected for the custom build. Ordering it tomorrow morning.
That's a great deal... wish I had done that before purchasing my 351w stroker that was supposed to have 400 hp at the flywheel but actually only has 330 and cast iron heads. Plus the 302 fits in a 1965 better than the 351w... I got mine for $3300 but it doesn't have aluminum heads. What brand of heads does this come with?
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