Hi guys, new guy here, pulled the 390 from my 67 today, chasing a dead intake lifter/cam issue posted a while back. We sure found the bad lifter and cam lobe!
The engine was rebuilt in 2008 before I owned the car, everything appears to be in ok shape despite the amount of metal from the lifter/lobe that was circulating. The cylinder walls are clean and still show the crosshatch from the last rebuild, a very small amount of scoring on the load sides of the walls but not deep enough for "fingernail catch".
The rod bearings are "probably" fine but I'm going to replace them as they have some small "fingernail catch" depth scores. We pulled one crank bearing cap and it looked fine but I figure might as well just do all the bearings while I'm in there.
My engine rebuild friend suggests I ditch the stock intake manifold and put an Edelbrock Performer RPM unit on, he hates the weight of the stock unit and says the RPM unit will just be "better" all around. I'm not looking for more horsepower at this point in time and I much prefer things to look stock. Any thoughts on this suggestion, would it be money well spent If I don't do heads etc.?
If you're not looking to be extreme and looking near stock, get the heads done rather than spending millions of dollars on new heads. Better to do it now than later while you have the engine out.
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Dave
2004 Nissan Titan Crew Cab
1966 Ford Mustang Original 289
Edelbrock RPM Performer Heads; bored .30 over
Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 600 CFM Carb.
Comp Cam 268H 9.5:1 Speed Pro Pistons
Patriot Tri-Y Headers w/ 2.5" H Pipe, Flowmaster 40S
620 1" drop in front, CSRP Front Disk Brakes.
Ford 8 3.40 trac-loc rear end
If it were me, I would do a total tare down and thoroughly clean everything. Do a light hone on the cylinders. Clean up the pistons. Run some crocus cloth over the crank journals with oil and an old shoe lace. Clean everything again and go with new rings, bearings, and a cam kit. Have the valves touched up as well with new valve stem seals. Do oil restricters in the heads and use a high volume oil pump and a heavy duty oil pump drive shaft. Get a new aluminum intake of your choice and put her back in. Then be sure to run a ZDDP oil supplement with every oil change FOREVER. Then enjoy.
And if you are running an automatic do the front pump seal while you have the engine out. Bruce
The rpm and performer rpm are great manifolds for the FE. A used vintage streetmaster manifold is also good, but the dual plane, will be a better all around driver.
Check Jay Brown's intake comparo, for the FE and you'll find both of those selections make great power and are good value.
Worried about the rebuild though. It sounds like you are skipping some steps. Don't rush it.
I tried to watch your build video but it was like watching a light show, would be nice to see each pic for a for more seconds. Looks like you did an amazing job, congrats man it looks fantastic.
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Brian
66 Mustang Coupe 289-2V under construction
what a shame-you read about all the concerns for soft off shore lifters and oil additive issues-and here it is ! yes, get an alum. intake-paint it blue if you want it to look more stock. i run one of those wrap around oil filter magnets and a magentic drain pan plug for more peace of mind. i would be taking things apart and solvent cleaning everything, and do whatever upgrades are out there that make good sense and wont break the bank. man that thing looks heavy sitting on the stand.....hope thats a 4 point stand, and not the ol'e widow maker styl i used once....
Bruce, why would you run oil restrictors and then a high volume oil pump? I have zero 390 knowledge.
The FE's oiling system needs help. No surprise huh? They put way too much oil to the heads and not enough to the mains. This is well documented. So, you need to restrict the oil going to the heads. The easiest way to do this is install a .090" restricter in the oil passage right below the rocker shaft assembly. That way if you decide to make a future change the heads don't need to come off.
The next thing is to run a high volumn oil pump to make sure the mains get plenty of oiling. Core shift is some cases on FE's can severely restrict the oil going to the mains so running an HV pump will help resolve this issue.
The only other mod that's easy to do at this point is to chamfer the oil passage at each main bearing web to align with the hole in the bearing allowing full flow into the crank and then on to the rod bearings. But this will be dependent on how much offset there is to begin with. This can be determined during mock-up and right before the final cleaning and re-assembly. There are other oil system mods that CAN be done too, but usually don't NEED to be done. They should only be done if your block is needing in those areas.
For a stock engine not raced or used on the track, the Stock oil system is fine. No need for a high volume oil pump. The stock valve train running stock HP does not need restriction. Once you start adding performance and racing it, the oiling system can benefit from the improvements mentioned and probably several more.
The factory GT Intake is pretty good, but it's Heavy and then some. if your not looking for more power, and your builder has a helper to put it on if he does it after the engine is installed, I'd consider keeping it. Putting it on by yourself with the engine installed is a tough job and can be hard to get it sealed up right (vacuum leaks and oil leaks)
One thing I don't know is if the factory GT heads had reasonably hardened exhaust valve seats. They do not have installed seats, but the area may be hardened enough where they are OK. A valve job or a quick look should tell you if they are holding up. I have a 67 GT with heads I don't think have been touched and I'll find out how the seats held up when I pull it apart over the next year or so.
If you have to add hardened exhaust seats, valve guides, etc... your getting to a point where it may be a good idea to rationalize a new intake and heads, then you'll need a new carb, headers, probably just stoke it while your at it, then you'll need a new cam, valvetrain, and ... all of a sudden changing a lifter cost $5,500. Also after the power gets added, you'll realize brakes, steering, suspension and everything else needs upgraded to handle the enhanced power, so the cost to change a lifter turned into $5,500 that really cost over $15,500
The seats on the FE heads were not flame induction hardened until you get into the early 70's productions. Since the FE was made until 76 (FT engines until 78), those later heads would have factory hardened seats to run with unleaded fuels. But anything made in the 60's would not have factory hardened seats on an FE. You can run stainless steel valves with the factory cast iron seats and that as I'm told will solve the issue of seat recession and valve burn out. Apparently the stainless valves won't "stick" to the cast iron seats which stops the seats from pitting.
I would still urge the use of a restricter for the valve train. The FE puts way to much oil into the top end of the heads. A restricter will help stop this. I read a report somewhere where it's estimated that during even moderate driving, there is a quart of oil in the heads, a quart in the lifter galley, and another quart or quart and a half inside of the oil system. That means at best you have one to one and half quarts of oil in the pan. That's not a lot of oil for the pump to pull up. Ford had a problem with 428's running dry during hard driving and causing bottom end failures. As a result they issued an alert and advised that during an oil change to add an extra quart of oil, 6 instead of 5. Later, 70 or so, dipsticks were changed to reflect the added oil levels.
So, if one did not want to use an HV pump, at the least add the extra quart during any oil changes so there is enough oil in the pan for the pump to pull up. Bruce
The HV pump is what pushes an overage of oil to the heads and begs for the use of restrictors. I don't think there is any need to use an HV pump in a basically stock engine 390 that is not seeing track time. Some very successful race engine builders do not use hi-flow or hi-volume pumps in their FE builds.
If you pipe in on the Network54 FE forum, you'll get some additional opinions, probably from both sides of the fence for this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindenBruce
So, if one did not want to use an HV pump, at the least add the extra quart during any oil changes so there is enough oil in the pan for the pump to pull up. Bruce
I'm told that in '67 the hi performance engines were stamped with a VIN number. This would include the K-Code and 390's. Not sure if the stamp would be on the back face of the head or back of the block on the drivers side. If the heads were switched when rebuilt that would put it on the from passenger side if on the head.
Do you have a VIN stamped in these areas on your engine?
Thanks for your feedback! After some serious thought, my plan is to keep her mostly stock for now, being my first rebuild and all. I've connected with Barry Rabotnick at Survival Motorsports and he's had some great feedback re. bearings, cam etc. Oh, and point taken, I will clean it all, clean it all again and then clean it all again!
Shopping list:
- Comp Cams 268 268 268 218 218 .494 .494 110 deg.
- Comp Cams hydraulic lifters
- Ford Motorsports double roller timing set
- Federal Mogul race rod bearings
- Federal Mogul 3/4 groove race main bearings
- FelPro standard full engine gasket set
- Brad Penn break in oil
- Rods (later in the rebuild when we know what's needed)
I may do the heavy duty oil pump shaft if it comes highly recommended, I just keep reminding folks that this is a street car, there are no performance upgrades on it.
Jimeast speaks the truth about "snowballing" costs. My engine builder friend keeps wanting me to upgrade this and that. As it stands now, fixing a dead lifter/cam is going to run over $600 doing it myself, and that's just getting her back to stock (ok maybe with a better cam/lifter/timing set and better bearings than stock)
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Just a few photos of engine work
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