Just got $200 as an early Christmas present after asking for some leaf springs... but after seeing that they're not on CJ's Black Friday sale and their brake rebuild kits are, I think I'm going to do the brakes first.
I have no signs of any problems with what's currently on the car, which is the standard four-drum manual 6-cylinder setup. It does occasionally pull to the left just a tad, and they did keep me from hitting a deer the other night. But I've never gone through them, I have no idea how long they've been on the car, and I still have a jelly jar. Plus the left rear almost failed inspection when I bought the car in January because of lacked stopping power.
I know there's already quite a bit on the forum but I wanted to put it out there for my specific application because it seems when I read old posts I end up with more questions than answers.
And I already have this that I ordered some time ago for my convertible, although I need to make sure it's the same thing... I thought what I got was a '67 because the '65 kits weren't being made at that time:
I've picked up some indications on here that I need to run new brake lines when I do this. Is that the case? If so, what exactly is it that I need? Is there anything else I need to get as part of this? I know there's an ongoing debate about a proportioning valve for a '69 or something like that.
Also, are there any step-by-steps out there or is the shop manual the best bet? If it's the latter, is there anything in the shop manual directions that's obsolete or not needed 48 years later?
You shouldn't need to run new brake lines to fit that conversion kit, assuming you don't have another reason for replacing them. The CJ's dual-master kit was a simple bolt-in for me (well, as simple as can be expected manipulating very short lines in close confines in a detailed engine bay, but you get the idea).
I did basically the same thing about six months back, although not with CJ's parts. I'd highly recommend replacing all of your flex lines at the same time. I vacuumed all of the old brake fluid out of the hard lines, shot brake cleaner through them, vacuumed out any residue, and dried them thoroughly with compressed air. Make absolutely certain you mic your drums (if you have them turned, the machine shop will likely mic them for you) and replace if out of spec. This would be a good time to inspect/replace the front wheel bearings and seals while you're at it. Keep everything clean and sanitary, and remove and refinish your backing plates if they're dirty/nasty/rusty.
To change to the 67 master, you'll need to change the lines that connect the master cylinder, along with a connector to attach the rear brake bowl to the rear brake line, and a plug for where the rear line used to be on the block. Glazier/Nolan has all that.
Glazier/Nolan has their show-correct rear springs on sale all the time- Less than $200 for the springs, eye and U bolts, and shackles.
__________________
Amateur restorer. (Well, once in a while I have been paid for it)
Why not do both? GN has the leaf spring kit and all of the brake parts can be had from a discount place like Rock Auto. The only "iffy" part will be whether your drums have enough meat to be surfaced.
I recently installed the CJ dual-bowl conversion and am thrilled with the outcome. One caution I have is that it was NOT AT ALL obvious what line went to where. The only instructions in the box were on how to bench bleed the cylinder. None (and I mean zero) of the items in the kit matched the threads on anything in my car.
The kit comes with a MC and two pre-bent lines which attach to the MC. One line fits the front bowl and one the rear. It turns out that the standard for Fords is that the front bowl feeds the back and the back feeds the front, but this does not appear to be an industry standard; I read somewhere that the Corvette has the front bowl feed the front and the back bowl feed the back. I installed mine with front->front and back->back before someone told me it was wrong. I have read in some places that it really matters which bowl feeds which end of the car, but cannot find any science to back that up. So far, mine brakes as expected.
The bolts on the old MC were also too short for the new MC.
The kit leaves it to the installer to figure out what goes where. While I am happy with the results, I would not consider this a brain-dead drop in replacement for someone who has never replaced an MC before.
In my case the threads did match, so I had a pretty good clue. After a few minutes of head-scratching it all made sense and went in relatively painlessly (although there's not much flex in those short lines to get the threads started properly, and with a freshly bench-bled master ready to drip brake fluid in my freshly detailed engine bay it was plenty stressful trying to work quickly). I've heard other folks with thread issues with this kit, so it's possible there's some plant variation (mine's a late '65 San Jose car).
there's not much flex in those short lines to get the threads started properly.
If you have the master cylinder loose from the firewall along with the junction
block where you can wiggle them as you are starting the threads it will make
it much easier.
Thanks for all the tips. Doing both is an outstanding idea. Nick, let's chat.
Is there a shopping list for the brakes? All I see on cj pony is some pretty pictures. Cylinders, shoes, probably drums... but how to make sure I get all the right springs and stuff?
If you're going to do a thorough job plus a dual bowl conversion, then here is what I'd get/do....
Front Brake Flex Hoses
Front Wheel Cylinders
Front Brake Shoes (you'll need to measure shoe width and drum inside diameter)
Front Brake Hold-down Kit
Front Brake Return Spring Kit
Front Brake Self Adjuster Kit
Front Hub Grease Seals
Front Inner and Outer Wheel Bearings and Outer Races
Cotter Pins
Rear Brake Flex Hose
Rear Wheel Cylinders
Rear Brake Shoes (yep, measure these too as there are a couple sizes)
Rear Brake Hold Down Kit
Rear Brake Return Spring Kit
Rear Brake Self Adjuster Kit
Rear Parking Brake Cable (if yours are rusted/sticking)
When you have everything removed from the backing plates, I'd remove them and clean them thoroughly and make sure there is not excessive wear on the 3 raised pads where the sides of the brake shoes slide. If so, they can be built up with a MIG and ground down smooth. Prime and paint or powder coat and re-install. Clean up and paint/powder coat the Rear Brake Equalizer Bar and reinstall with the new spring that comes in the Return Spring Kit.
The drums will be stamped with a maximum diameter so based on their condition an automotive brake shop should know whether they can be machined or will need to be replaced. Regardless, I'd make sure new wheel studs are installed in either and in the rear axle flanges. They're cheap and they get stretched over time and can break.
Clean everything with Brakleen or denatured alcohol. Lubricate the wear pads on the backing plates, the anchor pin at the top of the backing plate, the self adjuster screw and swivel and the self adjuster cable guide with NevrSeize.
For a drum/drum master cylinder, use the '67 style dual-bowl master cylinder. You'll have to make up a short line to the distribution block and then branch from there to each front wheel, and connect the rear line directly to the M/C - you may need an adapter or short section of line.
Bart's list is on the money. Only thing I would stress is to get the best RIVETED brake shoes you can find. Stay with a national brand, i.e., Bendix, Wagner, Raybestos. Do NOT use bonded shoes. Avoid the less expensive "house brand" supposedly made by one of the major brands, if possible. Using cheap junk when doing a brake job insures that you will not like the stopping power. In the overall scheme of things, good quality brakes are an inexpensive way to protect you and your car.
Best,
Al
What's the word on "re-lined" shoes? I see some of those on Rock Auto and I don't like the sound of that.
The shop manual says I should have 9 x 2.25 in the front and 9 x 1.5 in the back. This thing was bone stock when I picked it up so I can't imagine it has anything else, but I'll check.
The drums will be stamped with a maximum diameter so based on their condition an automotive brake shop should know whether they can be machined or will need to be replaced.
Don't ask them to go past 0.060" oversize- That's the legal maximum.
__________________
Amateur restorer. (Well, once in a while I have been paid for it)
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65 200 DD - want to go through my brakes
