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Old 11-27-2012, 11:46 AM   #16 (permalink)
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John at ORP makes some really nice suspension parts!

Opentracker Racing Products - Products Page
He's $80, NPD's $41.99. Almost twice the price and they may be the same or his might be better. I can't tell, can you?

As to his other stuff, as I said earlier "I'm not looking for stock, I'm looking for better while staying in a reasonable price range for a daily driver".
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'll hop in just to proactively clarify...

Our # 3049-1 pressed-in U.S.-made LCA is McQuay-Norris (current price is $44.95)

Our # 3049-1A "Concours" imported riveted-in LCA is Scott Drake

Our # 3049-1C riveted-in U.S.-made LCA is Moog


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Old 11-27-2012, 12:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'll hop in just to proactively clarify...

Our # 3049-1 pressed-in U.S.-made LCA is McQuay-Norris (current price is $44.95)

Our # 3049-1A "Concours" imported riveted-in LCA is Scott Drake

Our # 3049-1C riveted-in U.S.-made LCA is Moog


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And I just saw you guys on one of the car shows talking about different product grades. Obviously I can't figure it out from your wed site. Next time I will call first.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I was looking online for LCA's for a '65 coupe with I6 when I came across a Shelby version. It looks stronger than the stock part. It's only $24 more. Anyone ever use them, if so are they interchangeable?
Someone's full of it! No difference what so ever on the arms for 6 cyl to Shelby and GT Mustangs.

No difference as has been said. Buy the Moog and be done. Add the weld on reinforcement plate if you want to stiffen up the stock lower arm. If you want better, go for Open Tracker with the roller bearing on the pivot. Someone else even makes a heim joint on the pivot.

Those would be my choices in order of stock replacement to full race with factory type lower control arms.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The most heavy duty factory style LCA arms I could find were McQuay-Norris. They were made from thicker gauge steel than Moog LCA's were. I welded steel on the bottom of the LCA to box them in. And yes, it makes them much much stiffer.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Somebody posted last week that McQuay Norris was "not good", and I resisted the urge to retort... We carry primarily MN where possible, and it's the sturdiest we've found.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69bossnine View Post
I'll hop in just to proactively clarify...

Our # 3049-1 pressed-in U.S.-made LCA is McQuay-Norris (current price is $44.95)

Our # 3049-1A "Concours" imported riveted-in LCA is Scott Drake

Our # 3049-1C riveted-in U.S.-made LCA is Moog


Rick
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What am I doing wrong?
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Last edited by 4mustangs; 12-17-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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What you're doing wrong is following my bonehead-bungled-hurried part #'s...

Try 3078-1, 3078-1A & 3078-1C

And this, folks, is why our sales department has probably been better off without me since 1991....
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:51 PM   #24 (permalink)
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What you're doing wrong is following my bonehead-bungled-hurried part #'s...

Try 3078-1, 3078-1A & 3078-1C

And this, folks, is why our sales department has probably been better off without me since 1991....
And that's why when I made the change from tech to sales I kept my customers away from the boss.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Somebody posted last week that McQuay Norris was "not good", and I resisted the urge to retort... We carry primarily MN where possible, and it's the sturdiest we've found.
That was me. And if you like your ball joint bearings to be made out of plastic, then I guess they are good.

Perhaps they have some metal ones (A-la Moog) but I question it (in the case of our old cars, I mean. Not too much money to be made by a redesign).

Chop one open for us!
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:07 PM   #26 (permalink)
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That was me. And if you like your ball joint bearings to be made out of plastic, then I guess they are good.

Perhaps they have some metal ones (A-la Moog) but I question it (in the case of our old cars, I mean. Not too much money to be made by a redesign).

Chop one open for us!
Hmmmmmmm can you get us some pics?
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Not anymore I can't.

I mean, it's possible they are using a sintered metal design (I never did see one made by them though).. Seems odd that they'd bust that out for such a low volume part though.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:15 PM   #28 (permalink)
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There's nothing inherently "cheap" regarding MN's use of a graphite-impregnated insert in their ball joints..

What you've got here is a modern-design ball joint (MN) vs. a ball joint built in the manner/design predating WWII (Moog).

The Moog is two stamped/machined pieces of metal sandwiching a large and poorly-surfaced ball, with no separate bearing, and only three grease channels lubricating the ball. My pops (ex machinist by trade) assumes that the lack of polish on the ball is on purpose so that it will hold grease. A couple of really quick/nasty welds hold the sandwich together, but they're not adequate, it's the eventual fastening of the ball joint to the control arm that actually creates the structural integrity.

The MN is a cast housing, not sure of the right terminology for how the ball is captured, with a plastic bearing (there is NO separate bearing in the Moog, you're just riding inside the sandwiched-steel) with 12 grease channels lubricating a fully-polished ball. The integrity of the joint is not dependent upon the mounting hardware.

I have no scientific data to provide as to which is better, but I'm betting that all of our modern cars are riding on the latter... And my experience has been that modern stuff sure lasts for a long time, we don't have to rebuild suspensions in as short intervals as we did the old days.

And maybe the "racers" have a different take, because what's o.k. for the street doesn't always work best for track.

Anyhow, I have chopped into the inards of both ball joints. It's two totally different approaches at skinning a cat, one ancient and one modern. Modern does not necessarily infer or relate to bad-quality. Engineering and materials have come a long long way, just look how long modern engines can go between rebuilds, with less frequent service intervals to boot.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:44 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The moog DOES (every single moog I have dismantled.. Which is hundreds.. Maybe 1 or 2 didn't have it?) have a separate sintered bearing.. 2 actually. Upper and lower (separate sintered bearings). Each of those bearings has 4ish grease channels in them.

Now that being said, I have noticed more and more Moogs being produced in China over the past year. I haven't seen a MN produced in the USA or Canada though? I have seen "Assembled in the USA" on some of the boxes, but, maybe for different joints than the ones you are looking at.

ANd I agree with you, for our purposes, it probably doesn't matter much one way or another. Most of the new ball joints are of the polymer type, although I'm not convinced it's not only for cost saving reasons.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Well, the Moog label says "made in USA". This is for the Mustang 3-hole 67-73 unit. Yeah, no separate bearing. It's old-school... Which is pretty much why we offer it, because while the MN joint is a nicely executed piece, a cast-housing joint doesn't "appear" correct.

So we keep the primitive Moogs around for the correct-ish look, and the modern MN's for a more-affordable yet quality service part.
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