I really don't think the law would make something legal/illegal base base on you 'telling' someone what you did. You could, for example, whisper "the vin came from Craig's List" and say to the CHP... "I told him that..." No proof.
I'm remodeling my home, it was built in the 1930's and may have contained asbestos. I never had it checked, but removed the 'popcorn' and insulation myself.
_IF_ I had it tested, I would be required by law to disclose that I knew the house had asbestos. The fact that I don't KNOW this fact, protects me.
Same with lead based paint, I simply pressure washed the cinder blocks and removed all of old paint, didn't have it tested. Same with the inside, just tear it out and throw it away, no tests.
If you get a vin, you could say "I didn't know it was stolen" ... that's not going to hold water...
There's no standard about informing people about cars. People say "good condition" all the time. Yet, there is NO standard for what 'good condition' means.
An 'S' code (guess that means the 390FE) is a step above the SB Ford. You could get an FE from a truck, pop it into your 289, bump the price up $5K and walk away. Disclosure wouldn't be a legal out.
The next guy would simply say Sgt. Shultz used to say: "I know NOTHING, I see NOTHING..."
I strongly disagree with this this is narrow minded. I have been convicted of manslaughter 7 years ago. I have paid my dues, and will pay for the rest of my life. Have I been convicted? Yes,,am I a criminal? no. I have seen the underworld and I can tell you first hand, some people have made mistakes willingly and unwillingly and paid for it one way or another, big time. Are they evil demons trying to commit some crime? no they are not. I can own a gun by the way, but choose not to.
My comments are pointed at people who willing change the vin to deceive an unknowing buyer for monetary gain (this IS a criminal). I have a good friend who hit a women crossing a cross walk and did not see her, he also was convicted on manslaughter. I don't think of him as a criminal in any way. It was an accident.
I am far from narrow minded. I made no direct reference to you, and I'm sorry if it upset you.
__________________
65 k code fastback
66 GT Fastback
Sorry, 67 SS Camaro convertible
My comments are pointed at people who willing change the vin to deceive an unknowing buyer for monetary gain (this IS a criminal). I have a good friend who hit a women crossing a cross walk and did not see her, he also was convicted on manslaughter. I don't think of him as a criminal in any way. It was an accident.
I am far from narrow minded. I made no direct reference to you, and I'm sorry if it upset you.
Thanks for replying. Not offended it just sounded narrow minded. I caught it for standing up for female stranger. Best intentions, worst outcome. I actually see things differently now. I can assure you some convicts are straighter than youre avg joe. Some are too paranoid to even steal a piece a gum. And I also now see the abuse in the work force. I can relate, low income, do as youre told, you cant find a job anywhere else. And when the crap hits the fan, its the damn convicts fault. Thats the only reason I responded, there is another side to this table. I am actually very fortunate. Work for a great company, they found out through a disgruntle employee who wanted me gone. Wife and kid who depend on me, I thought I was done. I am here, they are gone. I love my company. They backed me all the way, and treat me fair and dont hold my past against me. Sure, they watch closely but I have built confidence with them over the years.
Thanks for replying. Not offended it just sounded narrow minded. I caught it for standing up for female stranger. Best intentions, worst outcome. I actually see things differently now. I can assure you some convicts are straighter than youre avg joe. Some are too paranoid to even steal a piece a gum. And I also now see the abuse in the work force. I can relate, low income, do as youre told, you cant find a job anywhere else. And when the crap hits the fan, its the damn convicts fault. Thats the only reason I responded, there is another side to this table. I am actually very fortunate. Work for a great company, they found out through a disgruntle employee who wanted me gone. Wife and kid who depend on me, I thought I was done. I am here, they are gone. I love my company. They backed me all the way, and treat me fair and dont hold my past against me. Sure, they watch closely but I have built confidence with them over the years.
I'm sorry for your situation, but at least you are doing well. My buddy fought depression for several years and lost his wife during that time (divorce). He has since gotten back on his feet and is moving forward. I have two brother-in-laws who have served time, one is a criminal and the other is a good guy, just bad choices.
Good luck with your future!
__________________
65 k code fastback
66 GT Fastback
Sorry, 67 SS Camaro convertible
I'm sorry for your situation, but at least you are doing well. My buddy fought depression for several years and lost his wife during that time (divorce). He has since gotten back on his feet and is moving forward. I have two brother-in-laws who have served time, one is a criminal and the other is a good guy, just bad choices.
Good luck with your future!
Good friend of mines brother, criminal, maybe, more torwards yes. Never grew up, grew old type of guy. Caught a real bad depression last time I saw him. He was talking to himself in public at his brothers b-day party, solid conversation for hours with no one around. Cant talk to the guy he is lost in space now. Damn shame, he was doing what he could to survive. last I heard he turned to religion. Not sure if he is talking in the wind though.
Thanks, doing well. Not sure what the future holds but optimistic. Corporate/government is very judgmental. I can understand why though. Hopefully it all balances out. Who knows.
Best wishes to all, Ivan
Last edited by ivancaicedo237; 11-28-2012 at 11:32 PM.
A Vehicle or Vessel Identification Number (VIN) is issued by a manufacturer or State Licensing authority. There are three ways for a vehicle to obtain a number.
1) An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part (as instructed by your State authority).
2) A number may be issued by your State to ID a custom built vehicle when it passes a safety and number verification inspection.
3) A licensed manufacturer issued a VIN when the vehicle (or vessel) is made and ready for delivery. This can only be issued when a "turn key" (completed) car, truck, boat or aircraft has been manufactured.
This is what dynacorn says on their website. As you notice, each state has it own rule on moving vin. I am certain they are not stupid enough to post this on their website without consulting a lawyer. To me it not important because I would never want to do such a thing. Stuff I read on website (I know you cannot trust anything on website lol) suggest it is not a federal issue but a state issue. Some states say it is illegal, others say it is illegal if used to perpetrate a fraud (hiding salvage titles, car type and ect) or anything to do with stolen anything. Not important to me, but neat to read this type of stuff. Law is fun to read and decipher. When I was in pharmacy school, I think I was one of the few in there that enjoyed the class and did not sleep lol. But if I was buying any classic car I would look very closely on what I was getting b/c this does happen. And most time, unfortunately, it is done to defraud people.
I really don't think the law would make something legal/illegal base base on you 'telling' someone what you did. You could, for example, whisper "the vin came from Craig's List" and say to the CHP... "I told him that..." No proof.
I'm remodeling my home, it was built in the 1930's and may have contained asbestos. I never had it checked, but removed the 'popcorn' and insulation myself.
_IF_ I had it tested, I would be required by law to disclose that I knew the house had asbestos. The fact that I don't KNOW this fact, protects me.
Same with lead based paint, I simply pressure washed the cinder blocks and removed all of old paint, didn't have it tested. Same with the inside, just tear it out and throw it away, no tests.
If you get a vin, you could say "I didn't know it was stolen" ... that's not going to hold water...
There's no standard about informing people about cars. People say "good condition" all the time. Yet, there is NO standard for what 'good condition' means.
An 'S' code (guess that means the 390FE) is a step above the SB Ford. You could get an FE from a truck, pop it into your 289, bump the price up $5K and walk away. Disclosure wouldn't be a legal out.
The next guy would simply say Sgt. Shultz used to say: "I know NOTHING, I see NOTHING..."
To your point, ignorance is not always an excuse. In your example about not knowing about asbestos or lead paint in your house. The disclosure regulations require that the seller disclose everything they know or should discover through the use of reasonable diligence. The issue at trial becomes was reasonable effort used by the seller? Modernly, most competent real estate brokers will suggest that reasonable effort should include not only the obvious, but the probable. After all, the broker will also be named in a lawsuit based upon an incomplete disclosure and some brokers have supplemental disclosures that their lawyers have prepared that are even more detailed than the standard required disclosures.
For example if the house was built before the 1970's it very likely has lead paint somewhere and the same idea goes for asbestos....at one time it was used in nearly everything (insulation, linoleum, exterior siding, etc. The year of construction should put the seller on notice that the house may very likely contain materials that are now considered dangerous and that the buyer should have inspections done by competent professionals if these items are of concern to the buyer. Remember, if a seller discloses the possibility of something, and the buyer signs the disclosure forms, the seller has a defense to a later claim that he failed to disclose.
Back to the original question, VIN tampering is not legal and the degree of illegality varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction irrespective of what the seller discloses.
__________________
*67 Vintage Burgundy 390GTA with most of the bells and whistles*
I was talking with a buddy of mines. Says adding a vin to a new car is illigal. The key he says, is "repair". He explained it this way. If you grabbed a whole new body, with all new parts, its a new car and has no VIN. Cant add a vin to it from another car and call it what the old vin said it was. No repair was made here, so its not legal. Whole new body and used parts from a similiar car, but not the vin car, its not legal either. For it to be legal one physical part has to be from the vin car, then it would be legal. And the vin plate doesnt count. In this case the vin car had literally evey paty changed but one, thats a repair. After you transfer the vin, then if that part fails, and gets replaced, all the new parts get grandfathered into the vin. So, in that case the last original piece goes, the rest of the car keeps the VIN going. I guess it gets legal determining what part would bare the vin at the minimum. I guess carpet wouldnt count, and things like that.
Last edited by ivancaicedo237; 11-29-2012 at 07:02 PM.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
