Talk to me about Roller Perches

[Sportsroof]

Originally Posted by sportsroof69

So how would these help in a drag racing application?

Weight transfer...

[sportsroof69]

Originally Posted by Sportsroof

Weight transfer...

I guess I should have worded it differently? will these help in a drag race application?

[TommyK]

Originally Posted by frdnut

Can you explain?

I can only theorize that the suspension is no longer in a bind with the roller perches resulting in a different ride height with the same spring.

[RichA]

Originally Posted by buckeyedemon

i wonder why Ford didn't make it movable if it makes such a noticeable improvement in ride quality and cornering? they could have made the perch similar to that used in the upper control arm bushing which is solid as well.

I suspect it is the same reason that people still buy a lot of the rubber ones today--they are cheaper than the rollers. IIRC Ford did use rollers on some of their higher end models, but the Mustang was supposed to be the cheap-n-cheerful runabout, and, if you save a dime here and a dime there over a couple of million cars it adds up.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by TommyK

I have had them for several years and they are a worthwhile upgrade. The only thing I would caution you on is they made my front end sit about 3/4" higher after installing them.

I noticed the same thing when I installed roller perches about two months ago. After the new shocks settled in, it is only about 1/2" higher. I agree with your theory. With the normal perches, the shocks are always under some degree of lateral stress. Anyone who has ever changed shocks in a '65 - '66 will notice that the upper bracket holes do not usually line right up with the carriage bolts, and must be pushed into position.

[buckeyedemon]

Originally Posted by RichA

I suspect it is the same reason that people still buy a lot of the rubber ones today--they are cheaper than the rollers. IIRC Ford did use rollers on some of their higher end models, but the Mustang was supposed to be the cheap-n-cheerful runabout, and, if you save a dime here and a dime there over a couple of million cars it adds up.

seems that if it was such a significant improvement it would have been worth the dime to upgrade.

[JonK]

If you hold a roller perch in one hand and a stock rubber one in the other it becomes immediately apparent the resistance the rubber ones are introducing into your suspension movement. The rubber ones keep the suspension from reacting immediately to changes in surface and sharp turns, they fight the suspension basically.
The best street application I read mentioned how the wheels would hop and bobble over train tracks but with rollers the wheels stayed in contact with the ground because the suspension could react fast enough to follow the changes.
Jon

[buckeyedemon]

Originally Posted by JonK

If you hold a roller perch in one hand and a stock rubber one in the other it becomes immediately apparent the resistance the rubber ones are introducing into your suspension movement. The rubber ones keep the suspension from reacting immediately to changes in surface and sharp turns, they fight the suspension basically.
The best street application I read mentioned how the wheels would hop and bobble over train tracks but with rollers the wheels stayed in contact with the ground because the suspension could react fast enough to follow the changes.
Jon

have you ever tried to quickly compress a shock or a 400 lb/in coil spring using your two hands? while the factory spring perch may cause some amount of extra damping, i have to wonder how it compares to that of the shock or the force in the spring.

[1313]

I keep flip flopping on getting some tcp ucas. On the other hand I think for the price, Mabey I should just buy the oem replacements and get roller perches. Of the two is there one more so than the other that'd make a immediate difference?

[JonK]

Originally Posted by buckeyedemon

have you ever tried to quickly compress a shock or a 400 lb/in coil spring using your two hands? while the factory spring perch may cause some amount of extra damping, i have to wonder how it compares to that of the shock or the force in the spring.

The spring perch doesn't change how fast the shock/spring can compress but the roller allows it to adjust angle quicker to keep the tire in contact with the changing ground surface or a hard bank turn. The rubber ones do not move any more than the rubber can deflect, guessing it can twist maybe 1/4" -1/2"? more than that and it would tear. The rollers can do a 360* spind if needed. Just as the double roller allows the shock to adjust independently of the spring is a suspension improvement.
Jon

[Fstbk]

I would not even build a 4x4 truck with parts as restrictive as the stock perches, much less put them on a sports car that needs fast suspension.

[JonK]

Originally Posted by 1313

I keep flip flopping on getting some tcp ucas. On the other hand I think for the price, Mabey I should just buy the oem replacements and get roller perches. Of the two is there one more so than the other that'd make a immediate difference?

I asked John at ORP about roller UCA, he said they would be overkill on anything short of a track only car and not worth the investment. I would suggest his street UCA (he deburrs and centers them) and his roller perches for a better than new street and some track. I made the mistake of getting repop UCA, the nuts started unscrewing in ~6mos. as I marked them, John's are worth the extra few bucks.
Opentracker Racing Products - Upper Control Arms
Opentracker Racing Products - Roller Spring Perches

This is a good suspension article to read first:
DazeCars, Suspension 101

Jon

[Phydeauxman]

Originally Posted by JonK

I asked John at ORP about roller UCA, he said they would be overkill on anything short of a track only car and not worth the investment. I would suggest his street UCA (he deburrs and centers them) and his roller perches for a better than new street and some track. I made the mistake of getting repop UCA, the nuts started unscrewing in ~6mos. as I marked them, John's are worth the extra few bucks.
Opentracker Racing Products - Upper Control Arms
Opentracker Racing Products - Roller Spring Perches

This is a good suspension article to read first:
DazeCars, Suspension 101

Jon

Are the ORP perches considered "double roller" perches as mentioned previously in this thread?

[buckeyedemon]

Originally Posted by JonK

The spring perch doesn't change how fast the shock/spring can compress but the roller allows it to adjust angle quicker to keep the tire in contact with the changing ground surface or a hard bank turn. The rubber ones do not move any more than the rubber can deflect, guessing it can twist maybe 1/4" -1/2"? more than that and it would tear.
Jon

i think you are missing my question. i believe the stiction created by the original spring perch adds to that of the shock or maybe the coil spring. you talk about how quickly the new roller perch can react but i believe you are forgetting how the shock resists motion as well (there is a curve to it of course). this adds a small amount of damping to that created by the shock. if you didn't have a shock, then i could believe your tire would react much considerably quicker with a roller perch (of course your car would then oscillate).

what am i not understanding?

with that asked, i have a set of homebuilt perches (only one set of bearings). they still bind the shock because of the coil spring. it didn't cost any more than buying a new set of stock replacements (personal labor is free) but i still wonder how much of an impact they really have. i'll never know, since i wasn't able to drive the car, CHANGE ONE VARIABLE in a roller perch, and then drive the car again. personally, i'm skeptical people need to talk them up to justify what they paid for them.

[gikort]

Originally Posted by buckeyedemon

people need to talk them up to justify what they paid for them.

There is your answer. You will get more for you $$ elsewhere.