3 speed tranny help needed.

[new1965owner]

i have an early 1965 mustang with a 200 inline 6 and a factory dagenham 4 speed.the dagenham has a busted 2nd gear.after much searching for imposible to find parts and research on this pos tranny,would the 3 speed be a fairly easy swap??is there a differance in the 64-65 3 speeds and the 67-68 3 speeds?will either one bolt up to my 65??and going from the 4 speed to the 3 speed will the shifter com through the floor in the same spotany help or oppinions would be a great help.thanks

[Trinks54]

not sure if this helps at all but I bought my 65 with a 302 and 3 speed. I swapped out the 3 speed with a 4 speed from a 67 and everything bolted up to the same bellhousing. Shifter came out in the same spot.

[pkelley]

You will need the bell housing and everything off of a 67 and up car, but they can be swapped out. You could also look at T5 Swap as I think they make the adapter to fit your exisiting bell housing.

[65SSG]

The 64.5-66 and 67+ 3-speeds for the 6 cylinder are indeed different. The early ones used a light-duty transmission identified as a 2.77 that was specific to the inline 6. Ford switched to a 3.03 3-speed in '67, which was the same basic transmission used for the V8s.

What you can swap depends on your specific engine block. If it's the original '65 block (part number stamped on the passenger side starting with C5 or maybe C4), you can only use the Dagenham, 2.77, or a T5 5-speed with an adapter. Swapping to the 2.77 I think will need a different bellhousing, not sure on the rest of the parts.

Ford changed the bellhousing bolt pattern in '66 to allow a bigger flywheel and clutch, but the blocks included both the original bolt pattern and the updated one. If you have a block starting with C6 or something later, you should be able to use the Dagenham, 2.77, 3.03 3-speed, Toploader 4-speed, or T5 with adapter. The swaps aren't too difficult, but do require a good bit of research to figure out what needs to be changed.

[anotherhassel]

Yes you will need a new bell for the three speed. A 67+will not work unless it is a dual drilled block which would mean your engine is not is not original. However i believe that modern driveline has an adapter for the dag to t5. Good luck and keep us up to date.

[datac]

You're rapidly finding out why the T5 is such a popular swap for the early blocks.

There is an Econoline bellhousing which will allow the later 3.03 3-sp (or toploader 4-sp, for that matter) to bolt to your early small-pattern block, but they're relatively rare. In any case, you'll still need to replace your clutch disk with one with the larger spline pattern (4-cyl Ranger among others, IIRC) no matter which of the options you pursue outside of the Dagenham or light-duty 2.77 3-sp.

[Leon Narozny]

Have you tried to find anyone to rebuild that Daggenham? That is actually a pretty
good transmission. There should be someone in your locale to do this.
Most larger metro areas have many speed shops and transmission specialists
to help you. I had an automatic trans shop rebuild my differential, they did a great
job, it wasnt cheap, but it was really well done. Check with your local Mustang
clubs for help. Good luck.

[TFrancis]

I would suggest staying away from the 64.5-66 3 speed (2.77). As mentioned above, it is a "light duty" transmission. We have this one in our car (66 inline 6). My dad has had to rebuild it 8 or 10 times over the last 20-25 years. Of course, this could be a result of my Dad's ability to rebuild a transmission and not the quality of the transmission.

It has a non-synchronized first gear. This isn't a bad thing, it just means you have to drive it properly. The transmission overall just doesn't seem to hold up well.

[new1965owner]

my block is not a dual bolt pattern and there isnt an adapter plate for my dag for the t5,i have the odd ball dag,the holes that bolt the tranny and bell houseing thread into the tranny houseing and not the bell.i just bought a 200 6 from a 67 that is a dual bolt pattern block.i think the new block will open up new posibilities for a replacement tranny.can i use a toploader 4 speed with the later model 6??

[datac]

I saw you post earlier that you were concerned about originality- are you certain you want to swap the block when there are other alternatives?

With your original block you'll just need a 2.77 bellhousing, which is quite common, and the appropriate T5 adapter. I wouldn't be surprised if there are Dag bell T5 adapters out there, too. I recall 22GT posting at one point that Glazier Nolan had an adapter for the 2.77 bell to the 3.03 3-sp/toploader pattern, so that's also an option.

The 3.03 3-sp and toploader 4-sp are very similar and share the same bolt pattern, but you'll need the appropriate shift linkage for either. Toploaders are fairly pricey, likely more than a V8 T5, almost certainly more $$$ by the time you include the shift linkage. The 3.03 3-sp is cheaper, but for a few hundred $ more you get a fourth gear and an overdrive.

I also have an early block, and I run a 3.03 3-sp behind the Econoline bellhousing I mentioned earlier. At the time I did the swap some 20 years ago the 4-sp shifter pushed the toploader 4-sp out of my budget, unfortunately. I plan on swapping in a T5 later this year, and I'll probably sell the Econo bell, but you might not want to wait around for me.

There are different flavors of T5 out there. The 4-cyl version would have no problem at all standing up to your engine and is very inexpensive, although some folks report the gearing in 1st isn't ideal.