Somewhat doubt it from the stories I've heard behind the product. It seems that MTF designed the liner and sent some to CJ's...who sent one to TMI to be produced for CJ (maybe exclusively). At least that is the scuttlebutt I've read. I will say that I saw the one piece liner announced and pictured on MTF before the other place(s).
First let's have all the facts before dragging people or an organization through the mud. Unless MTF comes out and says that their product has been blatantly copied, this is a non issue.
Also there is the possibility of licensing, how you know that this product was not licensed to TMI by MTF.
Don't assume anything.
Two points: The first is that I don't see how this can be patented. Nothing more than a different application of an existing product. Back in 2004 I asked about 1 piece headliners, and I wasn't the first:
But it's possible the original one piece headliner idea was patented, and any car using it today is paying a royalty, assuming the patent is not expired (likely).
And does anyone know whether TMI and Mustangs To Fear may have some sort of a deal in place? But even if not, it would seem unlikely that only one company would be working on a one piece headliner. With the way Mustangs are often so completely modernized, it seems to me that these would have been available years ago.
John
__________________
Do NOT send me a private message, email me directly: delstv@aol.com
now sandblasted and DP40'd since this pic was taken.
a two legged hole shot, even with a munged up carb and snow tires...
I don't understand why some of you are saying TMI "copied" MTF. Hasn't the MTF headliner always been one piece (with attached sail panels) while the TMI is using separate sail panels? Sounds like a product improvement to me.. something MTF has never had a problem doing with other people's products and then calling them their own.
Replaced
Full floor pan
Firewall
Full cowl
Radiator support
Shelby Drop done
Up next:
4 wheel drum to disc conversion, rebuild front suspension/steering, taillight panel, trunk floor,302 and AOD upgrade, wiring harnesses back in, and hopefully only patch panels on the quarters
E=MChuck Norris
No doubt... Got way off topic pretty dang quick...
Can we all agree to put an end to this thread? Pretty please?
__________________
Steven
Hickory, NC
1966 Coupe
Replaced
Full floor pan
Firewall
Full cowl
Radiator support
Shelby Drop done
Up next:
4 wheel drum to disc conversion, rebuild front suspension/steering, taillight panel, trunk floor,302 and AOD upgrade, wiring harnesses back in, and hopefully only patch panels on the quarters
E=MChuck Norris
Wild assumptions involving Chinese communists, espionage and parasites...
Does anyone find any humor and irony in that every single reproduction part on your car is "copied" from Ford's original design??
If you're in business, and you come out with a product that's a relatively new offering for the market you're in (even if it's not a new idea, and 1-piece headliners are NOT a new idea), you'd have to be either naive', foolish, or drunk to not assume that others will eventually recognize the potential for such a product, and submit their own versions, with their own "spin" on the idea, to the same market.
It happens every day, how many times to you see multiple choices for a singular product in our catalog?
When you're in business, knowing that competition will either mirror or EXPAND-UPON the successful practices you come up with first (free shipping anyone? we were the first in the Mustang industry..) is a given, and a part of doing business in a free country with a free market.
Certain unique ideas can be patented and protected. But simply applying an existing idea to a certain model of car is non-patentable, so you've gotta re-focus your energy upon making certain that you're offering the BEST product at the BEST "value" (I say value, because you don't have to be cheapest, you have to provide the most total-value for the dollar, from service to product to satisfaction).
The originator of the first Mustang cowl covers is no longer in business (as far as I know). Why? Because others introduced far-better and improved versions to the market, and the originator did nothing, never adapted, never rose to the challenge...
Welcome to America...
And don't mistake me, I think it is HIGHLY exemplary to be loyal to a good business who came to market first, and is doing a good job. I'm not questioning that whatsoever. I'm just saying that there's nothing strange going on here, and the entire industry that you rely upon for your parts is, in effect, reproducing duplicates, and improved-versions, of Ford's original design...
And it's all good, it's a robust and competitive market...
Put an end to this? Heck no. Make it a sticky, or bump it monthly and post a link to it for every "One-piece headliner" question raised. How would you feel if this was your business and someone you worked with did this to you...
I believe the problem everyone is having (for those of us having a problem), centers around the thought/belief/misconception, of how these parts were derived on TMI's end of design...I don't believe there is any R&D on their end, just copying some else work and making a quick "buck". Nothing unusual about that whatsoever, welcome to America/China/Japan or any other industrial country you want to name. Doesn't mean we can't speak out and be loyal to the developer. The Mustang world is a small one and we can vote with our wallets and referrals when it comes time to pick a vendor and a product. Maybe we can raise a big enough stink about to help someone out for a change instead of just saying, that's the way the always have done it.
From what I have read, there is no "spin", just an exact copy (well beside the wrapped version instead of textured ABS), I'm sure they will have dashes and 69/70 headliners out soon after MTF versions hits the market. Vendors (none that I have worked with anyways) don't really have a vested interest in whose product they sell, just as long as they can make a profit, keep customers satisfaction high, then they can't see what the problem is or what the big deal is.
BTW, MTF also has a headliner with the detached sail panels...who came out with it first, well I have my suspicion . Does TMI even make another fiberglass product? I looked on their website and didn't see any that popped out at me.
In addition, I don't own a single piece of MTF product...yet. Just need to get my car a little further down the restoration highway.
Is this post OK mods? One of my previous ones was removed for some reason...seems like a pm explaining the reason why would not be out of order so I do not upset anyone's delicate nature in the future.
__________________
1968 Fastback: 331 stroker, FTI cam, N351 Heads with a few upgrades, 4r70w w/3600 stall, 9" locker w/3.70 gears
From what I have read, there is no "spin", just an exact copy, I'm sure they will have dashes and 69/70 headliners out soon after MTF versions hit the market. Vendors (none that I have worked with anyways) don't really have a vested interest in whose product they sell, just as long as they can make a profit, keep customers satisfaction high, then they can't see what the problem is what the big deal is.
BTW, MTF also had the first headliner with the detached sail panels...
Are you sure? I like to do my own research and draw my own conclusions. From what I can gather, that is simply not true. Yes Mustangs to Fear was the first to produce a solid headliner for these cars which was back in mid 2011. I can even recall a conversation from early 2012 where someone suggested to MTF that they would be more likely to buy one if the sail panels were separate (for more economical shipping costs). MTF said he “can’t see cutting it up just to make it fit in a smaller box.”
The first time I became aware of the TMI headliner with separate sail panels was in CJ Pony Parts YouTube video from 11/12. Mustangs to Fear followed suite shortly after in 1/13 announcing they would be producing the headliner with separate sail panels. Their website shows that the headliners are now improved by having the sail panels as separate pieces but as far as I can tell they are still producing the headliners in ONE piece as this install shows (dated 2/6/13).. One Piece Headliner Install - pics
I have no affiliation with CJ Pony, TMI, OR Mustangs to Fear. I have spent THOUSANDS of dollars with all three companies and I am just posting this to set the record straight .
I believe the problem everyone is having (for those of us having a problem), centers around the thought/belief/misconception, of how these parts were derived on TMI's end of design...
I think you hit the nail on the head here. Whether TMI has done anything wrong or not, there is the perception that they did. The issue is not that they have a similar product, it is that they appear to have just copied an existing product, and the timing of their release only adds to that perception, right or wrong.
And as a generality, those of us in this hobby tend to consider ourselves "old school". We value hard work, dedication, ethics, family, and doing the the "right way". It why many of us pay extra cash for a part we know was made in America by a company we feel proud to support.
As I've learned in my career, perception is more important than reality. And in this case, it appears to some (myself included to be honest) that TMI has bypassed the values of hard work and doing the the right way, that many of us hold so high.
Corporate warfare, its been around for decades. Big deal, whoever can give me the best product and value is who I'll buy from.
Has anyone actually used either one? I am very interested in the integrated console version.
__________________
"LAZARUS"
Goodguys Younguys award winner TX-2000
MCA Grand National Pinnacle Award: Best Modified Driven, Sept 2012
Modified Mustang & Ford article: ?/2013
2 years of hard labor later
You guys think MTF didn't look at the fiberglass that is out there already by other companies (Shelby decklid, end caps, etc, etc)
Missed the point of my rant...they didn't just make an exact copy, they made their own molds, refined the product and made an improved product, from what I have read, is one of the best fitting, highest quality products on the market.
__________________
1968 Fastback: 331 stroker, FTI cam, N351 Heads with a few upgrades, 4r70w w/3600 stall, 9" locker w/3.70 gears
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
