1970 351 cleveland engine damage

[tmunn]

We took my 351 clevland apart today and it has some issues.The guy that built the egine originally left two shop towels inside the engine under the intake manifold gasket and it got caught in a lifter and starved # 7 with oil and dished out the bottom of the lifter and took most of the lobe off the cam and scored # 7 cylinder.It's already bored .030 and crank ground to .030 as well .I need to take it to a shop to see what can be done with the engine.I just bought the car in august and was really disapointed to see this and to be honest we were just freshening up the motor and going to do valve rubbers as it was burning some oil... This is a tough one to take.
What options would i have to re-use what good stuff I have or getting a re-bore if they cannot clean it up with honing.My friend and i discussed another block and boring it .030 and new rings, bearings cam and gaskets etc...I will take it to the shop monday.
Here are some pics of the rags found inside,the cam lobe and a lone on the cylinder wall which looks like some water had sat in there and self leveled and then some rust now above the line.I am finding some rust in other areas as well.The dods and crank has been worked and lightened and pistons balanced from what i can tell.
You guys that run clevlands have you done any modifications to help with oiling issues.

[prayers1]

Try the guys over at 351C.net

[bartl]

A lot will depend not only on #7 cylinder bore, but the other 7. If those bores have excessive out-of-round or taper then this will need to be addressed as well.

If the other 7 are within spec and can be honed and re-ringed, and #7 can't, then I'd sleeve #7 and take it out to a .030" overbore which would be the cheap way out as you could reuse your pistons.

If not, maybe you can go .040" on everything and buy a new piston/ring set for all 8.

If that's not an option you could sleeve all 8 back to standard bore.

I'd be more worried about a Cleveland crank being ground any more than .020" undersized.

[tmunn]

Thanks guys, have been surfing the net off and pondering some idea's and depending on what they say Monday i was going to ask them about your very suggestions.
I have read mixed opions(well it is the net)on going past .030 due to thin cylinder walls on the cleveland some say no way and others have them out to .060 and some say to get it sonic tested before going past .030.I would like to safe what i can as the rockers are roller and billit aluminum and the pistons look like new .I will get the crank checked as well but the bearings say .030 on them.The car worked nice when i put it up but was smoking and that is why we took the engine apart.
I know a guy with another engine and he is going to check it out and get back to me.

[Klutch]

Definitely have your machinist check out the block. As long it's sound, you can go to .040 if you need to. There are lots of people running Cleveland block at .040 and larger to prove it.

Most people who offer negative opinions about the 351 Cleveland have never actually run one. They just repeat what they hear. I'm not an expert, but I have run one and I'm currently building another.

[tmunn]

I added some pictures.Should know more in a couple days.

[Wycked68]

Originally Posted by Klutch

Definitely have your machinist check out the block. As long it's sound, you can go to .040 if you need to. There are lots of people running Cleveland block at .040 and larger to prove it.

Most people who offer negative opinions about the 351 Cleveland have never actually run one. They just repeat what they hear. I'm not an expert, but I have run one and I'm currently building another.

He's absolutely, 100% correct !

AND, Any machine shop worth their salt will suggest sonic testing before opening the bore to .040" over but you should still be fine.

If your lifter bores are damaged, there is a kit available to re-sleeve the lifter bores if needed.

[rickgto]

Shop rags didn't cause the cam failure or the cylinder damage. All they'd do is restrict oil drainback. Looks to me like that engine sat for quite some time unprotected from the elements. And before I'd think about boring it, I'd take it to a reputable machine shop and have the damage evaluated. If the other cylinders are still in good usable shape with existing pistons, the shop can have a single piston made for that cylinder to clearances the cleanup would take out. Like .001 or .002 over and weight match it for balance. You're probably looking at a very expensive single piston but it beats boring all 8 for no reason and weakening the block or inviting overheat issues.

[Mustang_zulu]

Originally Posted by rickgto

Shop rags didn't cause the cam failure or the cylinder damage. All they'd do is restrict oil drainback

yea right, looks like a lifter was not rotating and wiped the cam.. very common for flat tappet cams... but still... how do you leave a rag in therewow....

[tmunn]

Rick,I am with zulu on this one the puch rod had material between it and the top of the lifter and also the rags were actually like papertowel and there was lots of it on the oil pump screen I think it did not get enough oil combined with it also being sitting with water in it.
I took it to the shop for evaluation and it will be a couple days.
Another funky thing we noticed is that one head has what i am going to say are new rocker studs and I say this because there was anew opened package that came with the car that had h out of the package and 8 still in the package.The other head has a different rocker stud that have washers under them between the shoulder of the stud and the pushrod guides.Any idea of why this would have been done.I cannot get pics now as the heads are at the shop.

[buening]

I guess those rags are the poor man's Cleveland Oil Restrictors!

[tmunn]

I read that yesterday and Wa thinking the same thing .They could have got away with it maybe if they used something better but c'mon rags or papertowel in a engine block.They need thier head examined and whatever the outcome it's gonna cost ME...
Buening, I got your Pm's thanks.I will try and get that figured out later.Thanks
Terry

[Mustang_zulu]

Originally Posted by tmunn

The other head has a different rocker stud that have washers under them between the shoulder of the stud and the pushrod guides.Any idea of why this would have been done..

are you kidding?? washers under the guide plates so basiclly under the rocker arm to raise the rocker arm push rods too long? sounds really scary.. your going to have to fully recheck all of the valve train for sure...

[bartl]

Originally Posted by Mustang_zulu

but still... how do you leave a rag in therewow....

Ask me..... "how do you leave a shop rag in a 7.5" GM rear?"

[tmunn]

The washers were under the stud on top of the guide plate for the pushrods yep I should have taken pics.I will have the machine shop make it right i aint foolin with it too busy and no knowledge and too busy right now to learn.