Need help tuning quick fuel carb! - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 09:22 PM
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bartl , I agree with the full vacuum to the advance,but, we are dealing with a noobe here who is struggling with 3 strait slot adjustment screws on one of the best out of the box carbs I have ever touched (that didn't cost near $1000) we cant move to timing curves and vacuum advance adjustments just yet .
Carb adjustment 101 (this is not carb tuning)

OP,
IF you are on the PORTED vacuum nipple on the carb you have the throttle blades open way to far you should have no vacuum there with the throttle blades closed.
Hook up the electric choke,if you have a stock alternator connect the positive wire to the STA terminal on the back of it.That is where Ford connected it. Or do as I suggested in your other post and adjust the choke housing full lean to open the choke plate 100%,you will have NO choke operation.

If your blow-by is so bad you can build crank case pressure at idle with just your finger you have bigger problems than your inability to do base set up on the most user friendly out of the box carburetor ever.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65vertable View Post
I plan to wire up the choke asap. I just can't find a switched 12v line. Anywhere.
You don't need a switched 12V line. Wire the electric choke to the alternator STATOR post using a the supplied wire and a short fusible link 2ga smaller than the supplied wire gauge.

As far as the vacuum advance goes, it really makes NO difference in the method used for adjusting idle mixture as to what you use for a vacuum source, ported (timed) or manifold vacuum.

Get your choke correctly wired first, wait until the engine reaches normal operating temp second, then adjust your idle mixtures alternating from one side to the other moving the screws 1/4 turn at a time. When done, use your curb idle adjustment to set your idle speed. If the motor is relatively stock, set it to 600-650 in neutral (manual trans) or 550-600 in drive (auto).

Bart

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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone03 View Post
bartl , I agree with the full vacuum to the advance,but, we are dealing with a noobe here who is struggling with 3 strait slot adjustment screws on one of the best out of the box carbs I have ever touched (that didn't cost near $1000) we cant move to timing curves and vacuum advance adjustments just yet .
Carb adjustment 101 (this is not carb tuning)

Doesn't matter what vacuum advance source is being used to adjust idle mixture. The method is the same.

OP,
IF you are on the PORTED vacuum nipple on the carb you have the throttle blades open way to far you should have no vacuum there with the throttle blades closed.

He's already said that he's got the curb idle screw backed out so far that it's not touching the throttle arm. If the transfer slots ARE uncovered it's because the throttle is on the fast idle cam because of the non-attached choke.

Hook up the electric choke,if you have a stock alternator connect the positive wire to the STA terminal on the back of it.That is where Ford connected it. Or do as I suggested in your other post and adjust the choke housing full lean to open the choke plate 100%,you will have NO choke operation.

If your blow-by is so bad you can build crank case pressure at idle with just your finger you have bigger problems than your inability to do base set up on the most user friendly out of the box carburetor ever.
Where, on the carb, do you have your PCV connected? You should be using the port at the REAR of the carburetor. Second question...have you check the fuel levels in the float bowls. Adjust, if needed, so fuel level is just at the bottom of the sight glass.

I'd expect it to run really rich with the choke plate partially closed.

Bart

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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-28-2015, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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Wow make me feel dumber... anyway I understand now how the ported vs manifold vac works with timing. Full vac is more hc and more power. Tuned vac is less power and emmisions.. I don't have vac at the tuned port at idle.. only when I really crack the throttle open is when I get vac from it. You say I don't have to hook the choke up to a switched hot lead? Bs that would cause a parasitic draw and cause the choke to be open all the time. Now maybe I have something wired up wrong to the alt
.. but I have no terminals that are hot/have power with the key on. But not off. Unless the engine has to be running... I didn't check that. Dammit! Also with the blow by... ehh.. not surprised... engine is stock.. it sat in a field for 17 years un touched... then for the past 4 years it's been driven like a race car.... sorry if I come off a bit noob.. I'm Acually a Honda mechanic. I'm used to fixing cars with laptops. None of this crazy adjusting idle mix bs... where's my cpu to do that for me... not that's it's hard to do... just when you have never touched stone age technology... you have to relearn everything like your 2 years old. I'd like to see any of you pick up a lap top and re work a cvt trans gearing bands and inputs.... ain't happening without basics first.
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-28-2015, 04:44 PM
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Yes, the STATOR post on the alternator only produces current (1/2 the charging voltage) when the alternator is spinning so, in effect, it IS sort of a "switched" source.

You don't really get any more POWER using full manifold vacuum vs. ported as both sources will yield near zero at WOT, but at idle and closed throttle you'll have additional spark advance which is beneficial to combustion temperature and idle quality.

If the PCV is connected, and working, and you still have that much blow-by, it's an indication that the compression rings are whipped or you have a more drastic cylinder sealing issue.

LOL, just think of your BRAIN as the CPU and your fingers as a Data Link Cable....

Bart

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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-28-2015, 04:45 PM
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Not hooking the choke up just now means to just loosen the 3 screws and turn the cap until the flapper valve is straight up and down and leave it disconnected. It is one less thing to have to futz with for the time being. Frankly, that is what I would do. You can worry with that later once you fix why it is running so rich.

If you must hook the choke up, the field terminal is only energized when the alternator is turning. The rotor is a big magnet inside a set of copper windings(field) so it energizes when spun. I don't believe it is a full 12 volts though. It is something like 9? Somebody please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The old chokes were calibrated to work off the fla terminal but a new one is probably expecting the full 12 volts. The I terminal at the voltage regulator has that and so does the + side of the coil and they are both switched leads. If those are on all the time, something in the wiring is boogered. Its up to you. If you monkey with the field terminal you should disconnect the battery first because of the rectifier bridge(diodes). Its fairly easy to draw an arc and pop one.

Eh. Whats a little blow by, LOL. If you didn't replace your old ancient pcv valve it is probably terminally stuck. Look down the thing(carb) with the engine running and see if you can see it dripping gas from the venturi. If it is, floats too high. I have a QF different model carb but first thing I had to do was adjust the float levels in it. They were too high. I think my carb instructions even said check that as soon as you get it running because the box monkeys throw these things around like footballs and its easy for the adjustment to move a bit. I guess that is the answer for that.

331 solid flat cam, rings and bearings break in run up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MNjb-AiWec

331 break in complete and is waiting on me to finish the body work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhnOk5FCBkE

One of the last tnt's on my 289 may she rest in pieces. It ran in the
high 11's low 12's when it was at its best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yWPZGfMT0

Last edited by macstang; 09-28-2015 at 04:53 PM.
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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-28-2015, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macstang View Post
Not hooking the choke up just now means to just loosen the 3 screws and turn the cap until the flapper valve is straight up and down and leave it disconnected. It is one less thing to have to futz with for the time being. Frankly, that is what I would do. You can worry with that later once you fix why it is running so rich.

If you must hook the choke up, the field terminal is only energized when the alternator is turning. The rotor is a big magnet inside a set of copper windings(field) so it energizes when spun. I don't believe it is a full 12 volts though. It is something like 9? Somebody please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The old chokes were calibrated to work off the fla terminal but a new one is probably expecting the full 12 volts. The I terminal at the voltage regulator has that and so does the + side of the coil and they are both switched leads. If those are on all the time, something in the wiring is boogered. Its up to you. If you monkey with the field terminal you should disconnect the battery first because of the rectifier bridge(diodes). Its fairly easy to draw an arc and pop one.

Eh. Whats a little blow by, LOL. If you didn't replace your old ancient pcv valve it is probably terminally stuck. Look down the thing(carb) with the engine running and see if you can see it dripping gas from the venturi. If it is, floats too high. I have a QF different model carb but first thing I had to do was adjust the float levels in it. They were too high.
Do NOT connect your choke to the FLD terminal. The FIELD winding is used to excite the alternator so that it WILL produce current. Adding an additional load to the field circuit will reduce field voltage which will reduce alternator output.

Bart

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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-30-2015, 05:21 PM
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I just looked at a set of Quick Fuel Instructions I have, I WAS WRONG DO NOT CONNECT THE CHOKE TO THE STA TERMINAL , the QF carb choke needs a full 12v , the stator terminal as stated above is not 12v.

You need a keyed on 12v source. Also as stated above for now just adjust the choke FULL LEAN, this will open the choke plate completely and should prevent the idle from being held in the fast idle position.
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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-30-2015, 09:34 PM
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Did I type field? Sorry, if I only had a brain. Never mess with the field. They don't have a fla terminal. The thing is that I don't remember typing that post. I happened to do a search of what all have I posted lately which I do to keep up with whatever is going on and I found it. That seems odd and just a little scary to me. Maybe I need to quit posting anything on here because I guess I am loosing what little mind I used to have.

331 solid flat cam, rings and bearings break in run up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MNjb-AiWec

331 break in complete and is waiting on me to finish the body work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhnOk5FCBkE

One of the last tnt's on my 289 may she rest in pieces. It ran in the
high 11's low 12's when it was at its best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yWPZGfMT0

Last edited by macstang; 09-30-2015 at 09:37 PM.
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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-30-2015, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone03 View Post
I just looked at a set of Quick Fuel Instructions I have, I WAS WRONG DO NOT CONNECT THE CHOKE TO THE STA TERMINAL , the QF carb choke needs a full 12v , the stator terminal as stated above is not 12v.

You need a keyed on 12v source. Also as stated above for now just adjust the choke FULL LEAN, this will open the choke plate completely and should prevent the idle from being held in the fast idle position.
If that's the case I'd be replacing the choke thermostatic cap with a FORD electric unit that DOES use stator output.

Bart

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- Alfred E. Neuman

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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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Well one thing after the next... my dad passed away on the 13th. Then last week I had a massive seizure at work... I hit my head pretty hard. Was in the er for a few days.. then have been recovering for the last 4 days.. all I want to do if get the carb right and drive this thing! Before the carb blew the power s. Pump went.. took me forever to get a new one... so now I can't drive for 6 months! It's the law apperantly... bs! 6 months?!!? I understand get stable on meds and make sure your good to go... but 6 months.. wtf... its been 4 days and I'm loosing my mind.
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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-08-2015, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Have an update. So I wired up the choke to a switched 12v. Watched it open like a large mouth bass (over about a min or 2) then I ran the idle air screws to seat. Then backed them off 2 turns. Let it idle for 20 mins at 1200 rpm to warm up good.. was some black smoke comming out of exhaust.. very small amount. Not like a beater burning oil.. so I turned both screws in 1/2 turn. No more black eye burning smoke. Idles very smooth. I did change the dist vac to full manifold vac. Idles smoother. ... alot smoother. If I turn the main idle screw all the way out it will chug at 200rpm then die. So with that I can say I don't have any leaks! I think I got this thing licked! Set idle to 600rpm. (Manual car) at hot idle I get 17.5in vac. I drove it around the block.. not a good drive. But ran perfect... I'm not supposed to be driving... dammit. So that will have to wait. Oh and no more smoke comming from breather in valve cover. There is Acually a small amount of vacuum on it! Enough to hold a piece of paper towel on its self without the cooling fan blowing it off
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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-08-2015, 02:55 PM
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Awesome. Sorry to hear about the other stuff. It might help to check your spark plugs if you haven't. They may be pretty black. If they are fairly new you can clean them or just go run it out on the highway and they should clean up fairly good.

My dad lost his license due to seizures as a result of an injury in the war. He drove anyway though, LOL. Med's kept it under control for the most part. He had probably worked on half the police departments cars though so he probably got a few free passes.

331 solid flat cam, rings and bearings break in run up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MNjb-AiWec

331 break in complete and is waiting on me to finish the body work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhnOk5FCBkE

One of the last tnt's on my 289 may she rest in pieces. It ran in the
high 11's low 12's when it was at its best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yWPZGfMT0
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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-08-2015, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbergers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65vertable View Post
I understand now how the ported vs manifold vac works with timing. Full vac is more hc and more power.
since the vacuum advance is vacuum dependent, it is mostly or totally inactive under acceleration, especially under hard acceleration, therefore it has little to no affect under those conditions.

when connected to ported vac, it is basically active at steady throttle.

when connected to manifold vac, it is basically active at idle, steady throttle, and deceleration.

it is possible to have too much timing at idle, so before connecting it to manifold vac and just leaving it there, you should do some type of testing to see which is better for your particular app.
How do I go about testing that? Timing is roughly 9-11*btdc at idle. Runs very good. Maybe the slightest tiny puff of fuel smoke on hard accel.
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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-08-2015, 09:20 PM
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If it idles smoothly and runs well then don't worry about it. If you have too much vacuum advance at a very light throttle cruise you'll feel the engine slightly surging. If you have an adjustable vacuum advance you can dial it back a bit.

Bart

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- Alfred E. Neuman

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