Rebuilding Jane's engine - mini (but detailed) build thread - Vintage Mustang Forums

 47Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Kelly_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Austin, TX!
Posts: 5,327
Rebuilding Jane's engine - mini (but detailed) build thread

Hello all,

Operation "Jane Heart Replacement" has begun! As some may recall, back in August I had kind of a huge fiasco in which I somewhat killed Jane's engine and transplanted in a new engine in 18 hours flat. I then proceeded to let that engine sit for 4 months while I went haring off to Texas. Now I'm back in NC and taking another stab at putting Jane's first engine back together!

The new engine (which was a 6-bolt that fit less than optimally with the rest of my 5-bolt accessories) has been removed and was sold within 20 minutes. The money from that is now funding the rebuild of the old 5-bolt engine. It should be noted that this isn't Jane's original engine (clearly, if it's a '64 engine in a '66 car) BUT it does have sentimental value (having carted my butt around the entirety of the US) and it bolts right up to all of my parts quite well. It's lighter too, which is nice.

Anyways! This is the build thread on this engine. Here is what was wrong with it upon teardown:
1) Oil pump failing/failed (what caused the engine to be pulled in the first place)
2) Heads trashed - valve seats pounded out, valve guides torn up, exhaust valves more or less ruined, all kinds of valvetrain wear
3) Cylinder sleeve improperly installed; had come loose and was floating around in cylinder #2
4) Cam worn - looks to have a lot more miles on it than the engine itself did. Suspect cam pulled from another car. Alternatively, someone wasn't running the right oil, causing premature wear. Still functional and not at all wiped, but just worn.
5) Timing set nearly nonfunctional - so much slack in it that I could pull the chain off the sprocket while still on the car
6) Main bearings worn through to copper - suspected cause was oil pump causing starvation; however, bearings also appeared either very old or original. Crank was original and had never been polished/turned/cared for.
7) Mismatched pistons - different brands (yep)

That about covers it! In short, this engine should not have been anywhere near as reliable as it was. I put 20,000 miles on it since April of last year. Never let me down though it has been unhappy (low on power) for 6000 miles or so.

Oh yeah, and I sent my distributor out to Dan at G/N to be rebuilt. He called me to ask if the distributor had been pulled from a running car. When I told him yes, all he had to say was, "WOW!" Yes, it was that bad.

So! The engine got sent off to the machine shop. While there, the shop hot tanked everything and then:
1) Resleeved cylinder #2
2) Finish honed the cylinders (despite the fact that the engine was trashed, it only had about 40,000 miles on the current bore (4.040") and the bores were apparently so close to perfect that they didn't even need honing)
3) Rebuilt heads with iron valve guides, new exhaust valves, hardened valve seats; resurfaced
4) Installed new cam bearings
5) Turned the crank 0.010" under and polished
6) Assembled rods/pistons (I got a nice set of Speed Pro +8cc hypereutectics)

Now the engine's back in my possession and ready for assembly (also known as "busy work"). Here's what the block looks like:


Yep, that's pink. Not sure how that one happened...

And here's the heads:


Beautiful!

The first step in assembling the bottom end was to gap the rings. According to Speed Pro's specs, the top ring (chromoly / iron) needs a gap of 0.016" to 0.018" (Ford spec is 0.010" to 0.020"). So I put those at more or less 0.017".
[View of the chromoly/iron layers in the top ring]

This was done by putting each ring into a cylinder and pushing it down to a depth of 1-1.5" in the bore, then measuring the gap with a gap gauge. I used one of the old pistons to push the ring down evenly and squarely. I used the same cylinder to gap all of the rings for consistency's sake, though I suppose if I was being really super careful about it I should have matched each ring to its own bore.


I found that all of the top rings were within gap spec straight out of the box. The second rings (iron with a dot facing upwards) were all gapped too small. I remedied this by evenly filing one end of the ring against a flat file, stopping to recheck the gap pretty frequently.
[View of the dot indicating "up" on the second ring]


After I gapped the rings, I installed them on the pistons. I started with the bottom oiling rings, which is a stack of three rings (thin ring, "crimped" ring in the middle, thin ring), then did the middle ring (dot up to top of piston), then the top ring. I made sure that the gaps on all of the rings were clocked such that none of them lined up. Having the gaps lined up will score the cylinder and result in uneven cylinder pressure, apparently.
[Oiling rings on]

[Second ring on]

[Top ring on]


Some people only use ring extenders to install rings. I just spiraled mine on because it's an acceptable technique according to "How to build a small block Ford". And honestly, this isn't a crazy build that requires perfect precision by any means. The rings went on just fine.

After installing all of the rings on all of the pistons, I moved on to installing the crankshaft. First, I inserted all of the bearings into the block and main caps dry, ensuring that they were correctly aligned and installed with the tabs in the right location. I also installed the rear main seal - note that it's offset in the block to help prevent leaks.



I then smeared a ton of assembly lube on the surfaces of the bearings that contact the crank (as well as the sides of the thrust bearing) as well as the crank itself. Plopped in the crank (carefully).




After the crank was seated and all surfaces were definitely covered in assembly lube, I installed the main caps. I just tightened them to "snug-ish" to start out with to properly seat the caps, then torqued to spec (~65 ft/lbs) starting from the middle cap and working my way outwards. I then rechecked torque on all of the caps. Keep an eye on the rear main cap as you have to make sure that the offset rear main seal doesn't get squashed or bent or do anything crazy.


The next step was piston installation - a harrowing process. To start with, each piston was dipped in a bucket of motor oil.


I'll admit it fully - Chas did this entire next part. He has a ring compressor that has been handed down through his family for a couple of generations (read: old as dirt) and he prefers to be the one installing pistons if he's using it. I'm cool with that. So we compressed the piston rings, set the piston + compressor on the head, ensured the compressor was square and tight on the bore, and then used the wooden end of a hammer to carefully tap the pistons down into the bore.


While Chas did the tapping, I made sure that the rod ends were going into the correct place straddling the crank. If you don't watch it, the studs have a nasty tendency of just poking the crank and stopping butted up to it, which you don't want regardless of if you have something protecting them or not. Do not let the crank get scratched or marred in any way!

It should be noted here that usually, you install the rod bearings before installing the piston in the block. However, we wanted to avoid issues with the bearings jumping out of their pockets and onto the floor during installation. My hands are small enough that I can stick them down in there to get the bearing on the rod after the piston has been stuck into the bore (but before final installation on the crank journal, obviously) so we did it that way. A little more difficult but better for the technique we were using (and definitely better given my propensity for dropping things on the floor... which is not good when building an engine! )

After each piston/rod was fully seated with the bearing on the crank journal, I installed the cap. I just snugged the nuts to finger-tight to keep the bearings in place. After all of the pistons had been installed, I went back and torqued all of the nuts to 24 ft/lbs. Take special care to ensure that the number on the rod matches up to the number on the cap.


So, that's where the engine sits now. Bottom end is installed, lubed, and torqued to spec. I'm currently waiting on head gaskets (I figured out that the Felpro head gaskets that come with the kit are 0.047" thick and wanted some more compression out of the motor so I ordered 0.041" gaskets) and my new cam. Lunati is duplicating the old cam but with the 351W firing order. They've been a lot slower than they quoted me and I have really been having to stand on them to get the damn thing back to me. I chose them because they're known for quality work and they had a (theoretically) shorter turnaround time than Comp Cams. We'll see what the new cam is like. I hope it's good because they are pretty mad at me right now. It should be coming in tomorrow!

Til then.... guess I'll just sit around on my thumbs
19079, GT350R Klone, dkutz and 2 others like this.


Calamity Jane 1966 Modified Fastback - Driven semi-daily!
Wrecked and rebuilt even better
289 v8, 4-speed, 3.25 9" rear, goodies and stuff.

See my travel blog here for my adventures: http://calamityjaneroadtrip.blogspot.com/
2014: 10,051 mile, 2-month-long road trip around America
2015: 3,000 mile trip to Knotts in CA, CO to East Coast, an engine rebuild or two
2016: East Coast to TX, Hot August Nights, more trips to the East Coast
2017: Several long trips in the works! Stay tuned
Kelly_H is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 12:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Sonny Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 305
Wow! Great detail, great pics! I'm looking forward to more. Impressive.

Sonny Boy is online now  
post #3 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 12:43 PM
Senior Member
 
SA70coupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,233
Very nice. Kind of a Christmas present for both you, and Jane.

Nice assembly, slow and careful.

Please post the cam specs when you get them. it will be good reference, especially if the engine runs hard. I would hope you have a much improved performance after all those little problems were identified and eliminated. It promises to be a ton of fun....

1969 Mach1 Black Jade 351W FMX P/S A/C PDB
1970 Coupe Titanium smoke 302 T5
SA70coupe is offline  
post #4 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 12:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 346
Next time you build one, put some rubber vacuum or fuel line over the rod studs so you don't have to worry about scratching the crank. Anyways, nice job.
69DroptopGT likes this.

Carpino Automotive - specializing in vintage and 5.0 Mustangs: http://www.carpinoautomotive.com

65 Mustang Convertible - fuel injected, supercharged 302 with water/meth injection, Tremec TKO600, 8.8 rear, R&C coil-over front, 4-link coil-over rear.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mo...o-touring.html
GT_Rich is online now  
post #5 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 12:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 7,791
Always nice to see an engine build! Thanks for sharing and in such great detail, Kelly. I think you'll find assembling your own engine is fun and very satisfying.

I decided on the same pistons. Forged pistons are a lot more money than the hypereutectic and look how long your engine went on cast pistons.

Good choice on the cam as well. Bummer Lunati is slow-rolling you, but once you get that cam, it will be great. (Nothing wrong with Comp cams, but I'm not a big fan for multiple reasons.)

Those fresh, closed chambered heads look great!

I know you tend to get bombarded with advice and suggestions, but I'll go ahead and throw just one little bone. When you go the paint the block and heads, start with some Duplicolor high-temp engine primer. You don't really need high-temp primer or paint. Shoot, you don't even really need primer. However, I've used that Duplicolor high-temp primer a lot. For rattle can primer, it's really good stuff and I find it really does make the paint job look better and last longer.

I'm subscribed so keep those pics coming and keep on having fun!

Currently working on a 1970 Mach 1 project. See it here: http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...ode-build.html
Klutch is offline  
post #6 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 01:51 PM
Just some guy
 
GypsyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SC foothills, USA
Posts: 15,186
Garage
I didn't see mention of bearing clearances being checked with Plastigage before assembly. Makes me uneasy.
Might be just me, but I like to have the machine shop hone cylinders to match individually numbered pistons. Then I fit rings by hand to each individual cylinder. That's being finicky and a bit overkill when quality parts are used and consistent machine work is done. But sh*t happens. Also fitting rings to individual cylinders is a lazy shortcut to checking if the machine shop bored each cylinder to the correct size. If ring fit in a cylinder is radically different then get out the measuring tools.
Mostly I recheck every single bit of machine work done before assembly. There are engine builders I might trust to do all that correctly but I can't afford their work. Plus even the best shops tend to have at least one dumbass apprentice around.
SA70coupe and FRC928 like this.
GypsyR is offline  
post #7 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Kelly_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Austin, TX!
Posts: 5,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyR View Post
I didn't see mention of bearing clearances being checked with Plastigage before assembly. Makes me uneasy.
Might be just me, but I like to have the machine shop hone cylinders to match individually numbered pistons. Then I fit rings by hand to each individual cylinder. That's being finicky and a bit overkill when quality parts are used and consistent machine work is done. But sh*t happens. Also fitting rings to individual cylinders is a lazy shortcut to checking if the machine shop bored each cylinder to the correct size. If ring fit in a cylinder is radically different then get out the measuring tools.
Mostly I recheck every single bit of machine work done before assembly. There are engine builders I might trust to do all that correctly but I can't afford their work. Plus even the best shops tend to have at least one dumbass apprentice around.
Not sure about bearing clearances. However, the machine shop did hone the cylinders to exactly match the individual pistons.


Calamity Jane 1966 Modified Fastback - Driven semi-daily!
Wrecked and rebuilt even better
289 v8, 4-speed, 3.25 9" rear, goodies and stuff.

See my travel blog here for my adventures: http://calamityjaneroadtrip.blogspot.com/
2014: 10,051 mile, 2-month-long road trip around America
2015: 3,000 mile trip to Knotts in CA, CO to East Coast, an engine rebuild or two
2016: East Coast to TX, Hot August Nights, more trips to the East Coast
2017: Several long trips in the works! Stay tuned
Kelly_H is online now  
post #8 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 03:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Hill Country of Central Texas
Posts: 4,030
"He has a ring compressor that has been handed down through his family for a couple of generations (read: old as dirt) and he prefers to be the one installing pistons if he's using it."

I have that exact same ring compressor and I've had it for as long as I can remember.
awhtx is offline  
post #9 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 04:05 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Rutland, VT
Posts: 27,304
Garage
Nice work. My only comments would be a "ditto" with Gypsy on plastigaging the bearings, checking of crankshaft end play, acid-etch and epoxy prime of the block/head exterior surfaces, brass coolant drain and freeze plugs, although I don't think I'd pull your new steel ones at this point, and degreeing the cam when it arrives and gets installed.
SA70coupe and RV6 like this.
19079 is offline  
post #10 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 04:11 PM
Senior Member
 
dkutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,447
Very cool! I expect it on the road by Christmas so you can deliver presents with Jane!

.


.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/signaturepics/sigpic36164_8.gif

Current ride -1965 Mustang 'A' Code Fastback. Silver blue metallic. Med Blue int. Auto, San Jose, 10/8/64 #144941

Not forgotten 1996 Mustang GT
dkutz is online now  
post #11 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 04:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Harleydave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Livingston, New York
Posts: 2,651
Very nice Kelly.


68 Fastback.
351Windsor, 4sp, 8" 3.40 TracLok
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/bu...ld-thread.html
Harleydave is offline  
post #12 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 04:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Niagara Pen.
Posts: 1,434
I hope you had the wall thickness in the block checked before you sunk all that money into it!
Those early engines were notorious for core shifts in the castings.

Modified 68 Mustang convertible, 331,AOD, MCA Red Grille Medallion, 2014 MCA Pinnacle Award Driven class
05 Mustang, MCA Grand National Gold
kechke is offline  
post #13 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Kelly_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Austin, TX!
Posts: 5,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by kechke View Post
I hope you had the wall thickness in the block checked before you sunk all that money into it!
Those early engines were notorious for core shifts in the castings.
Yes, it was sonar checked by the machine shop, though I didn't require it of them. Because I didn't bore it out (just honed) and it has been running great for 40,000+ miles, I see no reason for there to be anything wrong. This engine has always run nice and cool, with the exception of when the oil pump was failing and the cylinder sleeve was rattling around and the crank bearings were no doubt getting exceptionally worn. And even then, it only idled a little hot in summer weather

The engine machine work was only a few hundred bucks, believe it or not. It's the heads that killed the budget!
19079 and subpar63 like this.


Calamity Jane 1966 Modified Fastback - Driven semi-daily!
Wrecked and rebuilt even better
289 v8, 4-speed, 3.25 9" rear, goodies and stuff.

See my travel blog here for my adventures: http://calamityjaneroadtrip.blogspot.com/
2014: 10,051 mile, 2-month-long road trip around America
2015: 3,000 mile trip to Knotts in CA, CO to East Coast, an engine rebuild or two
2016: East Coast to TX, Hot August Nights, more trips to the East Coast
2017: Several long trips in the works! Stay tuned
Kelly_H is online now  
post #14 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 06:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Niagara Pen.
Posts: 1,434
Head work is always expensive especially when guides are required.

Modified 68 Mustang convertible, 331,AOD, MCA Red Grille Medallion, 2014 MCA Pinnacle Award Driven class
05 Mustang, MCA Grand National Gold
kechke is offline  
post #15 of 111 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 06:48 PM
Senior Member
 
Paul1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: E. MA
Posts: 5,226
Kelly,
Thank you for posting this thread because:
a) I love SBF engine build threads
b) I like the way you write

I would have to agree here with GypsyR on checking bearing clearances with plastigage. The plastigage is not expensive and will it not take you more than a few extra hours across all the mains and rods to check the clearances which are absolutely critical. Nothing against the shop you used but mistakes are made. Also the wrong bearings end up in the wrong boxes sometimes. Please do not forgo this important verification step.

Also I had asked you in your previous thread if the machine shop had re-sized the big ends of the rods and/or installed new rod bolts but you never answered.

Keep up the good work and good luck
Paul

Okay. Engine Stop. ACA out of Detent. Mode Control, both Auto. Descent Engine Command Override, Off. Engine Arm, Off. 413 is in.
-Buzz Aldrin, Apollo 11 LMP
Actual first words from the surface of the moon
Paul1958 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome