Hello
I have a 1966 mustang convertible
I removed the right side inner rocker, torque box, and frame rail. I left on jacks and level with door on to check door gap
After I lowered it the door jam tightens up little to much for comfort
Don't see were I can adjust fender forward much as the fender don't line up correct
The left side is completely gone as well and I have not started on that side
Any ideas, suggestions etc
2 thoughts
I just relized after I lowerd that I have not welded inner rocker to rear torque box. Would tha allow it to move enough for that?
Originally as I had it on jacks I supported the front end
Now it's on jacks with front end not supported on either side . With the left side in such bad shape, the door gap increases on right side
Maybe I didn't say all that in an easy way to understand
The point is after left side is complete, will that also help keep the right side from closing back up?
The left side is very weak
Also will welding rear torque box in help that much
After I relized it wasn't welded and I was having issue. I didn't want to weld anymore as I was afraid I would have to cut right side back apart
It is really hard to understand what exactly is going on by your description, and that makes it twice as hard to provide any constructive advice. The bottom line is apparently you did not support the car properly when you removed all of the one side structural support, then welded on the new parts and they shifted. The correct fix is a bench jig and possible rewelding.
As a quick fix, you can jack the car up so that the door opening widens more than what you need, then try finishing up the welds to the torque box then set it down and see where you are at.
+1
It's very hard to see your issue without pictures.
Having said that............ Take a deep breath and relax.......... you didn't permanently damage anything and its all 100% fixable.
You need to build a jig frame to establish a proper datum line when you work on things like the frames/rockers. Your garage floor shouldn't be level, all of these floors were made with a slope built in to help drain water from your car away from the house,. Just because all your jack stands are at the same height doesn't mean your car is level front to back or side to side.
If your car is completely stripped down it should be light enough for you to get away with building a jig frame out of 2x6's from your local home depot or lowes. Another (more complicated) way to establish a datum line involves using screw jacks and a laser level... But for ease of use I would recommend using wood and some bubble levels.
Shoot me a PM for some contact info if you want to talk it over via email/phone
I like your attitude lol I thimk the same way I did level the car from side to side. I used the bottom of the outer rockers to level front to rear and use the door jam as a guide. Once again once I lowered it the door gap closed up. as I said before I realized after I lowered it that the rear torque box wasn't welded in
Do u think once that is welded with the car leveled and door jam correct, will it move.
Thank u
Well it certainly could be the problem. The car will settle and the door gaps will close up when you lower it. This would happen when they were new too. The problem is that when using the wrong equipment (jack stands) it becomes a matter of chance or luck and less about measurement and skill. The farther away from the center of the car you place the jackstands, the more it will close the door gaps. The closer to the center of the body you place them, the more the door gaps will be stretched open. Somewhere between the two, the body will be "neutral". Neutral meaning raised off the ground and not having door gaps be closed or opened. You can't rely on the doors themselves to hold the gap opening because the body could be pulling or pushing on the doors under pressure and you can't see it because the door is closed. So basically, you have to judge how closed they are now, how much they need to be opened back up by placement of the jackstands, open them just a little extra for settling and weld the torque box. It's not the correct way to do it, but you basically already crossed the starting line in the direction you are heading so you might as well finish with a slight "adjustment".
When we would doing these inner rockers in the early 80's before most anyone else was doing them, we would jack the car up in the middle of the rocker to increase the door gap prior to welding. We did leave to doors on as a gauge and only did one side at a time. When you let the car off the jack the gap would close up. It was pretty unscientific but it worked. Welding the car together with the car dead level and the door gaps right on is not a good idea. You could try welding the rear torque boxes now with the car jacked up in the middle but I'm not sure it will work. So your choices then would be break all the welds loose and start over or send it to a frame guy and see what he can do.
So, the major issue is that your car is a convertible...
I would hold off on doing anything until you get it up on a jig of some sort. As lo, measuring from the seam on the rockers isn't good practice IMO. I would get the frame sheet and use that to measure off known accurate locations such as the leaf spring mounting holes, surface of the front cross-member, etc...
After you have all your known "hard points" locked onto a jig, you can play around with the metal surrounding the door areas. The doors on mustangs are very heavy, even when they are stripped of glass and lifting mechanisms. I wouldn't have the door bolted to the car while you are trying to align the pillars to the new rockers.
I also don't think having your rear torque box removed will affect your door gap. That is assuming that most of the support material is still attached and in good shape.
Convertibles are a whole different animal when it comes to major repair work, I would not even start cutting a convertible until it was attached to a jig frame. Others have had good luck with jack stands and cinder blocks but I like to have my cars locked to a known datum line before I start chopping.
You can definitely get the floor and all associated parts installed with jack stands. You DO NOT need a jig. But it means everything must be checked and rechecked before parts are welded and before parts are welded permanently. Just as an 18 wheeler's trailer is arched when not loaded, you need to account for some flex when the weight is back on the structure. Do not level things, this is false hope. what counts is relative measurements and gaps effected by welded components. I would also suggest a quality set of subframe connectors. You cannot believe the difference they will make in the rigidity of the entire structure, even taking into account the beefed up floor structure the car originally has.
I'm with Pete. You don't need a jig, but you need an accurate way to measure and adjust. I used jack screw type jack stands that allow for fine adjustments. For measurements, I used a Bosch self leveling laser level that broadcasts a horizontal line across my garage. I leveled the car with the line side to side and then used the Ford frame chart to set front to back. With everything dead nuts my door gaps were perfect. That's how I welded it up.
I also agree that SFCs are great for convertibles.
You need to get the car level according to a frame chart and some accurate measurements, then weld in that rear torque box and put it on the ground. The rear torque box is the primary load path between the inner rocker and the rear grand rail. Of course it will make a difference!
My door gaps change about .030 to .040" when I go from weight on wheels to one jack under the center of the rocker. Seems pretty good to me...
10 thousandths deflection? That's nothing, sounds wonderful to me. ( BTW for those that need something to compare to . . .010 is about three black hairs. . . or 5 blonde hairs
No Pete, I'm saying deflection was between .030 and .040". The delta of .010 was the side to side difference, or possibly my error in measurement. I was using a feeler gauge.
Rear torque should not make a difference but these verts have a lot of flex in them. Doing one side should not impact the other. Depending on how and where you jack it up can make a difference and can cause a lot of movement. I think I would drop car back on wheel get a laser level and measure both sides from datem and see if off. Before you cut into the left assuming its an unmolested car you can use the measurement points to get the right good. I know when I put my 66 back together everything lined up good but when I put motor back in tightened up to the front fender. If you cant adjust door anymore could always shave a hair off the fender to keep from binding. As other said you don't need a jig but that being said on both my projects I used one, door braces. and a laser. Made it a lot easier. BTW one thing I learned is you can t get these cars perfect - you'll stress yourself out trying.
If your car is completely apart and bare, and your A and B pillars are welded to the rockers, having your rear torque boxes removed will do nothing to door gaps. Your rear torque boxes are there to transmit the load from the rear rail to the rest of the body, nothing more...
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