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post #16 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-10-2013, 11:20 PM
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Isreal, where did you get your rotisserie? Has anyone found a good blast business in the South East? I'm on t Florida Panhandle. Anyone have experience with dipping vs Blasting. I'd like to see a good list of Pros & Cons of both.
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post #17 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 03:37 AM
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Refer them to me if they are in the Midwest/st.louis to Evansville Indiana area! Lol I too have a media blasting business
But u said u can blast anything in 4-5 hours right? According to the OP this is too short of a time frame. Not being a dick just sayin.
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post #18 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Flade View Post
Isreal, where did you get your rotisserie? Has anyone found a good blast business in the South East? I'm on t Florida Panhandle. Anyone have experience with dipping vs Blasting. I'd like to see a good list of Pros & Cons of both.
The big downfall I believe to dipping is your removing rust from places that you can't see and you can't get primer or paint into.
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post #19 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 04:27 AM
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But u said u can blast anything in 4-5 hours right? According to the OP this is too short of a time frame. Not being a dick just sayin.
I can blast most cars in 4-5 hrs. Idk how that is too fast... Never warped a panel and have had plenty of satisfied customers!
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post #20 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 04:36 AM
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From an example perspective, we commonly talk to people that have been told by sandblasters (that don't typically focus on car bodies) that they can do a whole body in anywhere from 3 (the lowest I have heard) to 5 hours. This may be true, but to accomplish this you have to use a very aggressive media and/or a high blast PSI...neither which is good for body panels. The aggressive "profile" that is left on the metal, warping, heat, blow-thru are all common issues using the "strip it fast" strategy. We have actually had several car bodies in the shop that have been incorrectly blasted and require panel replacement (typically warped roofs, hoods, and qtrs).

By comparison, it takes us about 12 hours to completely strip a shell (inside/outside/underneath).

When choosing a blaster...ask ALL of the above. Also make sure that they have done several cars and you can call references. Nearly all sandblasters will say, "we can do that." Be leery of pricing under $500 for a full body and time estimates below 8 hours.

I hope this is helpful?

I'm confused by this. Now you are saying that people should be leery of my time quotes. I can blast a dis assembled car in 4-5 hours of it is already on a rotisserie. I use low psi, high cfm. The CFM's are the most important part for speed. I also use crushed glass, soda, walnut, cob, potassium sulfate, etc... Depends on what the customer wants. I have never warped a panel, chewed through anything, or ruined anything.
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post #21 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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I don't want to get into a debate about how long it takes to blast a body as there is no correct answer (things like layers of paint and bondo can greatly effect time). A courser media, higher PSI and larger blast tip are all ways to increase your stripping rate and reduce blast time. All of these will also increase the risk of metal damage. We focus less on speed and more on the process that produces the best profile on the metal for priming. Our goal is to leave a "very fine" profile (similar to the feel of a piece of very fine sandpaper) on the metal. This is great for primer adhesion and does not require any additional metal work or high-build type primers.

Each blaster will have their own process and results will vary. We have sample blasted pieces (hoods and deck lids that are long and flat) in our showroom that our customers can examine and feel, before they choose to have us blast. This allows them to see exactly what they will get back. My recommendation is that you ask your blaster to provide you with "samples" before they blast your body so that you can be comfortable with their process.

As for acid dipping vs. media blasting, we just had a '68 Barracuda in 2 weeks ago that was acid dipped. The biggest concern with this process is actually neutralizing the acid after it is dipped (so it doesn't eat your paint). I am not an expert in acid-dipping, but I can tell you what we learned:

1. It is expensive and there are not too many people that still do this (at least in New England) due to EPA issues. My customer paid $2500 to have the Barracuda dipped.

2. He ended up bring us the car with the rocker caps removed so we could blast inside the rockers....there was still acid in them!

3. The acid will eat the metal. There were several areas on the car that were pitted by the acid.

4. How do you get material back into those places not exposed?

Now the down-sides of media blasting:

1. Not done properly, metal can be warped/damaged.

2. Dust and media everywhere! The car needs to be blown out REALLY well after. You will find media even after you think you have it clean. And it is a pain...I am not here to hide this fact!

Here's a before and after on the acid-dipped Barracuda:



...The car had sat for 30 days after the acid-dipping and had flash-rusted.

I hope this is helpful. I am not here to debate media blasting techniques, just share our experiences and help guide and educate!

Phil

Full Car Media Blasting: www.classiccarblasting.com

Last edited by ClassicCarBlasting; 08-11-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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post #22 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 10:25 AM
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I had my '65 FB dipped at Redistrip in Evansville, IN about 20 years ago for $600. They did an excellent job. I will say I received back less car than I carried them. It was in pretty bad shape. But the end result was amazing. Not going to dip my coupe because I believe the price to dip has gone up considerably. But I haven't asked either.

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Patrick
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post #23 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 09:23 AM
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Isreal, where did you get your rotisserie? Has anyone found a good blast business in the South East? I'm on t Florida Panhandle. Anyone have experience with dipping vs Blasting. I'd like to see a good list of Pros & Cons of both.

Made it,...look up my thread, "Just another 50 yr old pile of Sheet."

Look up Hughnew1, he lives not far from you and had his blasted for $400.00

Wife,........."You drove how far for that thing?"
Daughter,..."Theres no inside and it stinks."
Friend,......."Dude, thats a rusted piece of sheet."
Son,.........."This old car is cool."

USMC Security Forces, Kamiseya Japan, 0311

Build Thread: http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...sted-pile.html
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post #24 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Askme42 View Post
The big downfall I believe to dipping is your removing rust from places that you can't see and you can't get primer or paint into.

Wondered about that myself, taking paint away from an area that's not rusting that will now since the paint has been removed,...

Wife,........."You drove how far for that thing?"
Daughter,..."Theres no inside and it stinks."
Friend,......."Dude, thats a rusted piece of sheet."
Son,.........."This old car is cool."

USMC Security Forces, Kamiseya Japan, 0311

Build Thread: http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...sted-pile.html
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post #25 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 10:43 PM
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There is a big difference between acid dipped and alkaline dipped. Te acid damages the metal and can cause problems for years. The alkaline dip does a great job cleaning every nook and cranny and once neutralized will not cause future problems. It is best followed with a dip in E-Coat to ensure all hidden surfaces are coated, but as you might expect alkaline dipped is significantly more costly than acid dipping and blasting. Living on the FL coast I was considering dipping since there is no way to get rid of hidden rust with blasting. However my 68 vert has proven to be remarkably limited in rust, so I am starting to think about blasting.
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post #26 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Flade-

It's funny you mention that. When the acid-dipped Barracuda was in our shop, we happen to have a shop foreman from a local high-end restoration shop, a painter, and a few others of us standing around the Barracuda. We were talking about dipping and what is really the "most complete" way to strip a body.

The general consensus was chemical dip, followed by a neutralizing dip, followed by a e-coat dip would be the most "complete & effective" way to strip and protect a body, as you state. I am not sure where this is offered or how much it costs, but it would be interesting to know.

Around here, there was one major chemical dipper in Worcester, MA (about 45 mins. outside of Boston) but he was shut down several years ago (rumor is this was due to EPA pressures, but I don't know this 1st hand). The Barracuda was actually chemically stripped by another guy in Worcester, MA, but his tanks are much smaller. The restoration shop that brought us the car told us that he had to dip the Barracuda 3 times: roof, front, then back. I am not sure, but my guess is he is may be trying to skirt EPA issues with smaller tanks, but obviously this has challenges when dipping cars.

Phil

Full Car Media Blasting: www.classiccarblasting.com
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post #27 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 08:57 AM
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We have a place in Florida bar Tampa that does the alkaline dip, and there is a place in MS that dips, then sends it across town for the E-coating. The prices used to be reasonable, (about $1200 to dip, e-coat is more) but as you note the EPA rules are getting stricter and this is driving the cost way up.

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post #28 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting, their pricing is:

Package includes body, 2 or 4 doors,

hood, deck lid and all fenders 1755.00 - 2805.00

Convertibles - top bows will be included in pkg.

(Price based on size and tank space consumed)

That's a pretty big spread on pricing and only includes the dipping not the e-coat.

Phil

Full Car Media Blasting: www.classiccarblasting.com
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post #29 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ClassicCarBlasting View Post
Interesting, their pricing is:

Package includes body, 2 or 4 doors,

hood, deck lid and all fenders 1755.00 - 2805.00

Convertibles - top bows will be included in pkg.

(Price based on size and tank space consumed)

That's a pretty big spread on pricing and only includes the dipping not the e-coat.

Phil

Big investment

Wife,........."You drove how far for that thing?"
Daughter,..."Theres no inside and it stinks."
Friend,......."Dude, thats a rusted piece of sheet."
Son,.........."This old car is cool."

USMC Security Forces, Kamiseya Japan, 0311

Build Thread: http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...sted-pile.html
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post #30 of 86 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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I agree. Unless you are doing a very high-end resto. that will be worth big bucks, I think it would be hard for many individuals to justify that much.

We work with body shops and resto shops, but the ultimate majority of our customer base is the weekend mechanic/ back yard builder. This price range would be "above budget" for most of our customer base.

Phil

Full Car Media Blasting: www.classiccarblasting.com
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