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Cobra Automotive Front & Rear Suspension opinions

7K views 32 replies 16 participants last post by  Alan _MacDougall 
#1 ·
The body work on my '66 should be finished by June so I'm planning on upgrading the suspension and brakes next. I want to keep it vintage style but upgraded for spirited mountain drives and the occasional club track days. Not interested in coil overs and tubular control arms and such as my opinion is that this takes away from the joy and nuance of driving a vintage car. Anyways I was looking at the Cobra Automotive Front and Rear kits and 12" brake package and it seemed well sorted if a bit pricey. However I liked the oversized tie rod ends in the modified spindle, solid bushings on the front spring perches, and boxed and gussetted control arms, with the matching leaf springs, and large brake package. Anyone have any experience with the kit or individual components within the kits?
 
#3 ·
I looked at Opentracker products and although some of his products are appealing some are not to me. For example, his rear leaf springs are I believe imported Scott Drakes, also I am not convinced a bearing is ideal in many suspension applications due to the limited range of motion compared to a full bronze bushing such as in the perches. I also like the completeness of th Cobra kit, upgrading the spindles, tie rods, brakes with aluminum hubs for example. What I'm wondering really is if anyone has anything negative to say about their kits or products. I searched this forum and nothing comes up but that is either nobody uses them because of expense or whatever or no one has anything bad to say. They seem to have a high degree of race proven products, whereas other folks state their products are engineered to race standards but with the exception of Maier they don't seem to have the history or pedigree.
 
#4 ·
brian, you are suggesting that a bronze bushing has more range of motion than a spherical bearing does? are you daft man? as for opentrackers leaf springs, while i don know where he gets them from, as far as i can see he only supplies the best.
 
#6 · (Edited)
The bronze bushing that Cobra Automotive uses (Falcon type) can cary more slightly load than the bearing used in the Opentracker spring perches. But there is some more drag with the bushing, although not nearly as much as the stock Mustang rubber bushing. I think Opentracker does not use a spherical bearing, as mentioned above ? I believe they use a roller bearing. However, both the bushing and the bearing are more than sufficiant for the job. Another difference is the bronze bushing needs lube once a while, whereas the Opentracker bearing set up is sealed.

I've had both and both are well made, and substantial improvement over the stock set up. Cobra Automotive does have reputation for being pricy though (race programs are expensive to maintain).

As far as the spindle go, if not listed on the Opentracker website, I'd email or call him. It's likely he can source the larger spindles if you want them.

Customer service wise, I believe Opentracker has the edge there.


Z
 
#7 · (Edited)
I agree, The bearing does have the potential for 360 degrees of rotation but not in a suspension application such as the spring perch which rocks back and forth. I'm not an engineer but it would seem that the needles in the bearing wouldn't wear unevenly after a long period of time because of this limited motion. In other words without spinning around the entire race as you see in a wheel application the needles could potentially form grooves. Might not happen in a weekend warrior type car but there probably is a reason manufacturers and racing applications don't use them. Ford did use the bronze bushing and dicontinued likely for cost and maintenance reasons. I don't mind the expense and love to tinker with my car. Finally, once you add in all the other things included in the Cobra kit to others the price isn't different.

John also stated in a previous thread on leaf spring construction and materials started by 4ocious that his springs were Drakes if I remember correctly. This being said, I'm in no way bashing his products as they appear very well made I just am asking for a review of Cobra parts not Opentracker.
 
#13 ·
I agree, The bearing does have the potential for 360 degrees of rotation but not in a suspension application such as the spring perch which rocks back and forth. I'm not an engineer but it would seem that the needles in the bearing wouldn't wear unevenly after a long period of time because of this limited motion. In other words without spinning around the entire race as you see in a wheel application the needles could potentially form grooves. Might not happen in a weekend warrior type car but there probably is a reason manufacturers and racing applications don't use them. Ford did use the bronze bushing and dicontinued likely for cost and maintenance reasons. I don't mind the expense and love to tinker with my car. Finally, once you add in all the other things included in the Cobra kit to others the price isn't different.
Although I don't agree with some of his original post, Brian66 is right on the money here.
The point he brings about the needle bearings is key. Highly loaded, they will fail by
brinelling (and other circumstances) because of the limited motion.
Ford's reason not to continue the lubeable saddles was one of cost mainly, I'm sure. It's possible there
were some NVH concerns as well.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
 
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#8 ·
I doubt you will find any negative comments anywhere about the quality of any CA part. That being said, do you really need that level of performance for spirited driving and occasional track days? If your budget permits, maybe that's a mute point. However I would venture to say with the amount of abuse OTRP puts on their equipment you would be just as happy with less money sent. Now if you are going all out Vintage Class spec racing...that's another deal.
 
#10 ·
Expense is always a factor but not necessarily THE factor. Let's take Opentracker's Kit since everyone seems to be bringing it up. His front suspension Stage 2 kit with Bilsteins is $2269 compared to Cobras $4215. Now add in the spindles, outer shock tower covers, hubs, bump stop kit, oversized tie rod ends, wheel studs, etc... And you're about $3,500 - 4,000 Depending on sources

It seems to me based on the limited reviews tha Cobra sells good products but everyone agrees they at least initially appear pricey as the only negative.
 
#11 ·
Point taken, but again are those extra items absolutely necessary for anything other than full blown racing or are they just added insurance for shaving a few extra tenths of a second off your lap times. Don't get me wrong, if I we're building a full tilt open track car (which I am) I would also strongly consider the CA kit for pure vintage spec class racing.
 
#12 ·
Pretty funny, The gentlemen said he felt pretty good about Cobra Automotive and the next said... Yea they are great, Try these other guys. Both are good. A big thing about our cars is that they are our cars and nobody else's. We gravitate to the group that we feel comfortable with and then we go there to enjoy ourselves. I can think of a whole stack of reasons why I would go a different direction for me. However Scotty does make a great product. He pretty much rules the roost on the east coast for vintage performance. The other factoid is making good vintage style suspension now days in many cases is more expensive than making tubular suspension. The tubular suspensions allow for the companies to be more sustainable financially. I went through our Bill Of Materials on the vintage suspension that I used to make and it just couldn't provide the ROI we needed to support the business. So... When Opentracker and Cobra continue to make the older style suspension systems it is probably more out of love for the car and they are just doing it to keep the classics alive. Go with the ones you can see yourself enjoying a beer with and have fun.
 
#14 ·
Bearings are GT289's area of expertise. That is my understanding too that needle bearings are usually something that isn't used for static loads. The typically need motion. But I do recall or at least I think I recall seeing some roller bearings being rated for static load.

Mike Maier brought up an excellent point about clean sheet tubular control arms. About 2 years ago I did my whole front suspension with tubular for the very same reason Mike said. I wasn't vintage racing so I wasn't limited to stock or modified stock parts. My whole front end uses rod ends and my spring perches have sealed roller bearings as well as my pedal hanger in the car. I haven't had a single bearing problem, no regrets or anything else. The end of the day you have to decide what, is right for you and got for it. I would not worry about the use of bearings. As for noise and harshness, I found just the opposite.
 
#15 ·
opentracker DOES NOT use needle bearing, he uses spherical bearings, especially in his lower control arms. just read the product description.

for the bearing conversion kit:

ORP’s Do-It-Yourself Roller Lower Control arm Kits are now available for the qualified fabricator that wants the best in handling and drag strip performance for vintage Fords. This kit has what you need to convert your original or aftermarket lower control arms to roller control arms. The kit comes with two custom made spherical bearing kits.
for the performance lower control arm:

Opentracaker Drag Racing / Street Performance Roller Lower Control Arms have a replaceable spherical bearing pivot instead of the factory rubber bushing. The spherical bearing allows your suspension to move freely, giving you better weight transfer and improving your 60 foot times. The spherical bearing eliminates the bind and deflection from the stock rubber bushing for better performance on the street. Opentracker Roller Lower Control Arms are legal for vintage racing.
 
#16 · (Edited)
opentracker DOES NOT use needle bearing, he uses spherical bearings, especially in his lower control arms. just read the product description.
The discussion on needle bearings is referring to the roller perches, not the arms. The perches do not have spherical bearings in them.

It sounds like the OP has made up his mind that he wants CA parts on his car. He is very unlikely to find negative reviews on their stuff, so if the budget supports it, do what makes you happy.
 
#17 ·
thanks guys for your opinions. I have carefully deliberated on my choice of CA as originally stated. Again my taste leans more toward vintage style, which discounts many of the more modern manufacturers making coilover and tubular kits. Would I get better ride quality and performance at a cheaper price with a tubular control arm / coilover set up. Definitely, but I'm going for subtle factory style. That leaves a few choices including Opentracker and CA. I chose CA for the completeness of the kit, the history of the company, and the robustness of the parts. Is this overkill for my purposes now. Again definitely. But in a few years when I'm about to retire and the kids are out of college I may want to do more and why build it twice when the cost difference isn't that much all things being equal between the two. Hell, I have 4 times that amount into the bodywork at this point that I will never recoup in the value of a '66 coupe but I've waited 26 years to do this so I will get as Mike Maier stated what I would enjoy drinking a beer with talking about the glory days gone by. Again, Opentracker, Maier, S&T, ect... make excellent products and I didn't want this thread to spiral down into which one is better. I just couldn't find anything on the web or on the forum regarding CA parts reviews. They seem like a great company but most folks aren't using them I suspect out of concern for price. But these same folks, probably spent far more money in the long run upgrading parts over and over again. You see it here all the time. One starts off buying KYB shocks, then decide they want better and go with Bilsteins, and then you finally end up with JRI coilovers from Mike. Why not just skip to the chase and save money in the long run and buy exactly what you want the first time even if it takes longer to save up the money.


Just my 2 cents and that's all its worth!

Again, thanks for the opinions I appreciate the responses, sounds like I'm not going to go wrong with CA.
 
#20 ·
I have parts from John at ORP and CA on my car. It's seen a lot of heavy use at the track for almost 10 years. Everytime I take it apart and check operation of bearing parts, they all seem to be just fine. I think worrying about a roller perch failing is a wasted discussion. I have run both the std roller bearing perch and the dbl roller from John and have seen NO wear over the years.

I think the testing that John does (and has others do) is as good if not better than other suppliers. Plus, I'd rather have a beer with John.


That being said, I would also say the same about Shaun at Street or Track!

I also agree that CA stuff is great too. All three can provide vintage legal parts.
 
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#23 · (Edited)
I've run Cobra Automotive complete front and rear suspension systems on my 66 Fastback for about 12-15 years. It has been faultless all through that time and I've never had to repair or replace anything. I used Cobra Automotive back then because at the time the availability of other suspension systems was more limited.

I've quite often thought about changing to a coil over system, but can't justify it because my car handles very well - better than my level of driving skill. I would note that the Cobra Automotive system makes the car hard sprung - but I'm quite happy with the car set up that way as I usually take my car out canyon carving, thrash it and then put it away again after an under car inspection.

Cobra Automotive are super knowledgeable to deal with, as they probably should given how long they've been in existence as a specialist Mustang race shop. Always faultless service when I've dealt with them, and a walk around their shop is a Mustang owners dream - real Shelby Mustangs everywhere.
 
#27 ·
I will second Cobra Automotive's expertise and product development. All you have to do is see their semi roll into the pits at any racetrack, how they prep their cars, and how their cars perform on the track to know that this isn't their first rodeo. I have some of their parts on my race car, and everything I have gotten from them is well engineered and well made. They do sell some parts you can buy cheaper elsewhere (i.e. Afco parts), but when you buy their parts, you get their experience and knowledge base as a bonus. And, Curt and Scottie have forgotten more about vintage racing Mustangs than most will ever know. Not saying they're the only ones (I have Maier and EPS parts with comparable provenance also), just addressing CA since that is the topic of the thread.
 
#30 ·
Food for thought.
You guys are getting pretty intense with this bearing thing so I thought I'd have a crack at it myself. In my early designs of the rocker arm rear suspension I used ball/ roller bearings in the rockers. I used them for about a year or so then I changed the rocker and noticed the bearings were very notchy. A thought popped in to my head and I realized I was not continuously spinning the bearings. They were just rocking back and forth. This eventually rocked a divot into to the loaded side of the bearing housing. so I then realized why Ford used the bronze bushings on the falcon spring saddles. As like the gentleman said before they have a ton more wearable surface area. So for our street applications we now use a delrin bushing in our rocking pivot points in our suspension systems. This by all means in not a rule. I am sure there are exceptions. Something like a needle bearing that spreads the load is something that also sound good. I just haven't gotten there yet.

As for the question about the JRI shock application. The short answer is no, we do not sell a stock replacement for something like the Koni. As we got into the project of designing the upper coil over system we found that there was much more to the picture than just swapping things out. This is what lead us to the Upper coil over combo. We did want to make it simple but we were not going to compramise quality in the pursuit of simple.
 
#31 ·
There must be a minimum degree's of rotation required for even wear, are not engine roller rocker fulcrums needle bearings ? They only see an oscillating motion, not full rotation. My old dirt bikes also had needle bearing rockers in the suspension, which held up fine.
 
#32 ·
There must be a minimum degree's of rotation required for even wear, are not engine roller rocker fulcrums needle bearings ? They only see an oscillating motion, not full rotation..........."
I've worn out a set of Crane Gold Race Roller Rockers, if I remember correctly it took about 22,000 miles (of mainly high speed driving) before the needles had flattened out enough to warrant replacement. Just saying, in my case the rotation wasn't enough to ensure even wear.

Z
 
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