Father Daughter '66 Coupe Build - Page 3 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric Quarnstrom View Post
Oh man... I was hoping your link was going to be to one of those borescope things so I could take a peek inside... not the rebuild manual.
Sorry, but don't despair to much putting a SBF together is almost like therapy, unless your that really unlucky guy that has had the worst luck with his 331


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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 05:05 AM
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Well after pondering the possibility of alternate water routing and searching for coolant flow diagrams online
The water pump picks up the coolant from the radiator through the lower hose and pumps it into both sides of the block through those two holes. From there it flows through the block to the rear and then up to the heads through the holes in the head gaskets. The forward ends of the head gaskets do not have holes to allow coolant flow thereby forcing the coolant to go to the rear of the block. (That's why the head gaskets are marked FRONT). There are some small holes in the head gaskets between the front and rear to allow a limited amount of coolant to flow from the block into the head and to allow bubbles to escape.
The coolant flows back forward through the head and then enters the intake manifold at the forward end where each head opens into a common plenum in the manifold behind the thermostat. Of course from there it flows through the upper hose back to the radiator.

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So now my question to you experienced guys... is this supposed to be open for coolant flow?
Absolutely!

Before you go all the way to tearing the engine down you may want to remove the timing cover and clean those 2 holes out and then reassemble it. Then do a "citric acid flush" and see if that cleans anything out. Maybe a couple of flushes and rinses for good luck.
Once you've done that and confirmed that the engine does not overheat you can proceed to add your EFI, etc.
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by awhtx View Post
Before you go all the way to tearing the engine down you may want to remove the timing cover and clean those 2 holes out and then reassemble it. Then do a "citric acid flush" and see if that cleans anything out. Maybe a couple of flushes and rinses for good luck.
Once you've done that and confirmed that the engine does not overheat you can proceed to add your EFI, etc.
The citric acid flush works well. A word of caution though. The flush is going to bust debris in all parts of the cooling system. I'd watch around the freeze plugs, radiator and heater core. If the water jackets in the block are that clogged it's a good chance that when those deposits are loosened he could get some leaks in other parts of the system. That's not the fault of the acid wash but rather an indication those parts were done and needed replacement. If the heater core lets go the interior could be in for a world of hurt or perhaps worse a slow leak you don't notice until the carpet has been soaked and mildewed. Being in the PNW (I lived in Seattle for 15 years) they'll need the heater and particularly the defroster for a good part of the year. Might be a good time to replace or rebuild the heater system anyway.
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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 04:38 PM
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Roboticservo, are you saying the blocked water passage is from mineral build up? Not a casting error or something? That's crazy.

I guess I have some thinking to do regarding next steps.

Thanks for the input.
Yes, that is the reason why you need to use demineralized water in your cooling system. That gunk is in every water passage of that engine. Normal coolant changes and flushed will keep that from reoccurring in the future (after a rebuild).

If the engine was running and the build-up wasn't that bad, you probably could have gotten away with doing a series of strong flushes. But from what I see there, I would hot tank the engine and have the shop check the measurements while installing new cam bearings.
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Last edited by roboticservo; 03-18-2018 at 04:41 PM.
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 05:14 PM
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Evaporust/Thermocure will eat that stuff away and turn it to a powder like that can be carried away, it has to be immersed completely though.

I have used the Evaporst many times and have but 1 worry. It cleans amazingly well but anything treated will go from beautiful to re-rusted crap rather quickly if the metal is not protected somehow. I fear the rust returns with a vengeance where it cant be seen.
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 06:05 PM
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You can take your parts out of the evaporust and not rinse them, for a rust-protective coating. Sticky, but it will keep off the flash rust for a long while. Talks about this on the back of the jug, or at least it used to.
evaporust is my go-to for restoring delicate parts that can't go through the blaster or too small to set up the electrolysis tank for.

For this application I think a big tub of CLR would do him better. The main component in that crud would most likely be calcium. I don't think evaporust works on calcium, but CLR or a mild mix of Phosphoric acid would do both the calcium and rust.

But for this one, I would drop that cruddy sucker off at the machine shop and tell them to:

hot-tank
hone cylinders (bore if needed)
hone crank bearings (bore if needed)
replace cam bearings
measure and recommend new crank bearings
Check the valve seats and regrind if needed
Replace valve guides and machine for posi-seals
Check the crank if you are reusing
Press pins for pistons and arms
Measure and recommend bearings for connecting rods


Only thing I *might* do before dropping it off at the shop, would be to port the heads to match your headers and improve the flow. Also check to see if you need any porting between your head and intake. Better to do all that grinding before you get everything washed out real well.

Putting together a 260-351w is pretty easy. Basic hand tools and a decent torque wrench is all you really need. I highly recommend replacing the head bolts with studs. ARP makes a kit for your engine that has all new fasteners .

I know all the engine work sounds like alot, but this is pretty basic stuff for any machine shop. You should be able to walk out the door having spent less than 600 or so.
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-19-2018, 01:10 AM
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For this application I think a big tub of CLR would do him better. The main component in that crud would most likely be calcium. I don't think evaporust works on calcium, but CLR or a mild mix of Phosphoric acid would do both the calcium and rust.
It looks like other hard water issues in the desert. In AZ they're in the Sonora, I'm in the Mojave. Same issue both places. Caliche. It's serious calcium with some lime. In the ground it basically turns to cement. It builds in the water from run off, aquifers and the like. Unless you truck or pipe water in any naturally available southwest desert water is going to have that high a mineral content. We use CLR on some things but if it's a heavy deposit or even regular maintenance on something like a toilet or drain that can take it we use muriatic acid. Some deposits can be so hard CLR doesn't budge it.
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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-19-2018, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Wow! Thanks for all the great responses. I'll try to reply to each:

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...Then do a "citric acid flush" and see if that cleans anything out. ...
I just Binged that and will read up on it. Thanks for the confirmation on water flow and the tip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasloki View Post
... If the heater core lets go the interior could be in for a world of hurt or perhaps worse a slow leak you don't notice until the carpet has been soaked and mildewed. Being in the PNW (I lived in Seattle for 15 years) they'll need the heater and particularly the defroster for a good part of the year. Might be a good time to replace or rebuild the heater system anyway. ...
You are right about the need for the heater/defroster. Luckily the previous owner had just replaced it and it had been doing the slow leak as you describe.

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Originally Posted by roboticservo View Post
... Yes, that is the reason why you need to use demineralized water in your cooling system. ...
Crazy... I have a stalagmite growing in the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roboticservo View Post
If the engine was running and the build-up wasn't that bad, you probably could have gotten away with doing a series of strong flushes. But from what I see there, I would hot tank the engine and have the shop check the measurements while installing new cam bearings.
The engine was/is running; I drove it ~40 miles home upon purchase.

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Originally Posted by 1ofAMillion+ View Post
... Evaporust/Thermocure will eat that stuff away and turn it to a powder like that can be carried away, it has to be immersed completely though. ...
Carried away by the water pump? Are you suggesting Evaporust in the cooling system while running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roboticservo View Post
...
But for this one, I would drop that cruddy sucker off at the machine shop and tell them to:

hot-tank
hone cylinders (bore if needed)
hone crank bearings (bore if needed)
replace cam bearings
measure and recommend new crank bearings
Check the valve seats and regrind if needed
Replace valve guides and machine for posi-seals
Check the crank if you are reusing
Press pins for pistons and arms
Measure and recommend bearings for connecting rods

I know all the engine work sounds like alot, but this is pretty basic stuff for any machine shop. You should be able to walk out the door having spent less than 600 or so. ...
You're right, it does sound like a lot... but $600 seems very reasonable for all that; I was thinking much higher. I'll see if a local shop will come close to that price.

Thanks again for the responses.
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From the factory:
- '66 A Code Automatic Coupe

Modifications:
- American Autowire Classic Update Kit (510125)
- 3G 130 Amp alternator

Build Thread:
- Father Daughter 66 Coupe Build
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 12:08 PM
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You can get an inline filter for your radiator hose to catch anything while you flush the system with whatever solution you choose to go with.

BUT, if you rebuild the engine now it's one major component that you wont need to worry about. And while its out you can much more easily clean up the engine bay.
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