66 T Code - T is for Transformation - Page 34 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #496 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 08:30 AM
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2.02" intake and 1.6" exhaust if memory serves.

Allen
Since Mark isnít here to say it, I will...cheater.

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Patrick
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post #497 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Installed the pistons this afternoon. Initial measurement shows .008" down in the hole (with a feeler gauge). I installed the heads, first with the fel-pro head gaskets (which I will not be using) that are ~.047" thick. No touching anywhere. Tried it with no gaskets next. Took the heads off to see if there were any issues. Well the pistons just touch the protrusion between the valves.


Allen
Let me clarify this. The pistons just touched when I put the heads on with NO gaskets. I obviously left that sentence out.

Allen
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post #498 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Checked valve clearances this evening. Intake is .110" and exhaust is .160" with NO gasket.

Currently the numbers show that I would have 12.09:1 ratio with a .031" gasket and 12.27:1 with a .027" gasket.

I'm going to make sure the heads are 64cc because that is what is knocking the number down.

I'm .008" in the hole, 4.030" bore, 2.875" stroke, -18cc pistons, 64cc chamber volume and then gasket thickness.

Allen
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post #499 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Needed the pilot bushing so went ahead and got the rebuild kit for the toploader.

I got the Road Race Rebuild Kit Plus from David Kee.

Allen
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post #500 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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I've been paying close attention to @gikorts build. Makes me that more nervous on the engine...

I checked the rod bearings today. All are at .0015" to .002" with plastigauge but I have a little concern on the 1 and 5 journal as it seems to have a bit of a low spot, making the plastigauge thinner (don't ask me why I am checking the plastgauge in multiple places on the journals, just trying to make sure I don't have any issues) in one small spot across the journal. I know it's can't be "perfect", but again, it makes me pause...

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post #501 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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Talked with the machinist today after dropping the heads off to have them milled .015". Long story short, he said run it...

The heads are ready already so I will pick them up Monday and check clearance again.

Also getting answers from @silverblueBP and an engineer I know from Huntsville...

Allen
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post #502 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Disassembled the toploader this afternoon...

Allen
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post #503 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 11:33 AM
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Hmmm, where to start. Some things I've learned over the years about track days and racing (vintage).

Read every club's rules before you start spending money!

Get as much seat time as you can. Have fast racers ride with you, but make sure they drive the same type of setup as you do. A FWD driver will be useless if you have a RWD car.

Stock rods (no matter what you do to them have a short shelf life before they start to "stretch". Stock crank will last all day at 6,000, but 7,000+ is going to kill it sooner or later.
Lighten everything that you can and still be safe.
Stich weld every metal joint.
Put in a good radiator and new hoses. Buy or drill holes in the t-stat to let air through.
Roller perches
Adj strut rods
Get rid of rubber parts, except the trans mount.
Good shocks are not an option, but a requirement.
Roll/cut fender lips before painting!
Removable steering wheel or suffer the consequences.
If you go cheap on parts, THEY WILL BREAK...soon.
Ask lots of questions.
Lose the coil spring covers.
Use hood pins.
Put catch cans on the valve covers and the rear axle. Rebuild the toploader with good parts from David Kee.
Use Joe Gibbs/Driven MTF in said toploader.
Put a good locker in the rear. I've been very happy with the Detroit Tru Trac.
Put heim joints on the stock toploader shifter rods.
Make/buy a brace that mounts to the brake MC/firewall that goes to the shock tower.
Put the biggest brakes on that the rules allow. Run cooling ducts to them and use race pads/shoes and expensive DOT 4 fluid.
Switch to braided brake lines.
If you use regular roller rockers, just know that one day you'll upgrade to shaft rockers. Don't doubt me
Buy a trailer cause your car WILL break down at the track.
Get over having "pretty" paint. It's gonna get peppered all to hell.
You're not going to believe how fast you'll go through tires.
6pt or more cage and all the safety gear you can muster. Having your head pop off your neck or burning up is a terrible way to die.
Proper harness, 5-6pt camlocks are not that expensive.
A good seat that holds you in place and is properly attached to the rear main hoop.
Fire ext is a minimum, a system is better.
A coolshirt setup will make the day a lot more enjoyable.

You WILL have more fun and comradery than you can possibly imagine!
Thorough advice like this is what makes VMF so great
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post #504 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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6pt or more cage and all the safety gear you can muster. Having your head pop off your neck or burning up is a terrible way to die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundpounder17 View Post
Thorough advice like this is what makes VMF so great
Especially graphic detailed advice that makes you go, "Yeah, I think you're right!"

Mark has been a tremendous help so far and I'm just trying to get the drive train built. I'll throw him a compliment since he's not here right now...

Allen
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post #505 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Missing the interlock pin on the toploader so I ordered it, a hatchet detent and the snap ring pliers.

Got the heads back after being milled. They are now ~61.5cc (somewhere between 61cc and 62cc). So I have the following stats:

4.03" bore
2.875" stroke
61.5cc chamber volume
-18 pistons
.008" deck clearance

So the only variable left is the head gasket bore and thickness. According to my calculations, any gasket (Cometic) that is 4.10" bore or less and any thickness with that bore that is .031" or less will give me the desired 12.5:1 ratio +.

I'll call Cometic and see what gasket they recommend.

I have clearances of .129" on the intake and .163" on the exhaust valves. This is with some 1.6 roller rockers I got with the heads. I will remeasure when I get the Jesels shaft rockers...

Allen
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post #506 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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I've got the toploader back together...not without some issues. Pictures tomorrow maybe...

Allen
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post #507 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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Ok. The toploader...I bought the David Kee master rebuild kit for racing (the top end kit). When I disassembled the trans, I left all the gears intact and had determined the best way to do that portion of the rebuild was to assemble it immediately after the disassemble so as to have it fresh on memory plus be able to "stack" the parts up the same way they came off the shaft. The disassemble went smooth enough (doesn't it usually)? Removing the rear bearing was probably the hardest part at this point but it simply came down to knowing the shaft through the bearing while the ring on the bearing rest against the case.

Now the assembly. I started with the two bottom row of gears. They have needle bearing in them which I know can become a pain (and they will in this case as well). I assembled both of them, making sure the bearings were all in and used a brown colored bearing grease to assemble them (found out later what to use on these and it works). I got them both installed with the thrust washers (now plastic instead of bronze) that go on each end of them...no worries, for now.

Next I moved to the 1st and 2nd shifter rod, shifter arm and detent. It was easy enough so I jumped ahead to the other shifter arms and detents and found this trans was missing two detents. I had also figured out that you need a good pair of snap ring pliers. I ordered the detents and the pliers, again from David Kee. While waiting onthe parts, I decided to go ahead and tackle the center shaft and gears and get those parts replaced. Can't remember at the moment what I got wrong but I had to disassemble and reassemble to get everything correct. Once finished, I knew the installation of the rear bearing would be a job, having to press it on. I cut a piece of 1 1/2" galvanized pipe I had in the shop the length needed to install the bearing. I rested the front end of the shaft on a metal plate, put the pipe over the tail end of the shaft and pressed the bearing to the point (watching carefully) that the snap ring would just fit to hold everything in place. PERFECT!! And to top it off, the parts are in.

Time to install the shaft and gears into the housing. Now I remember why I had to take it all apart again. The shaft will NOT go into the housing with the rear bearing installed. It lacks about a quarter of an inch, but it won't go. The best way to get the rear bearing back off was to disassemble the whole shaft so you can press it off against the race. So you have to press the rear bearing on with the shaft and gears in the housing. Another painbut got it done, again watching carefully to get the bearing on in the correct spot for the snap ring to go on. This snap ring is particularly difficult because you have to pass over a section in the rear of the shaft (where the speedometer gear goes) that is the same size as where the snap ring installs at the bearing...another pain.

Got through that and it's time to get the shifter rods, detents and arms installed. Took a little to figure out where everything goes, but not too difficult to do. Pressed the front bearing off with the help of an old 2014 F150 front rotor. Pressed on the new front bearing (two inch pipe and a 2" tee I had) and ready to get this over. RIGHT! You cannot on a close ration toploader install the front shaft and gear with the lower left (from the front) set of gears installed on it's shaft. Ain't happening! So I do some research and find on VMF where this had already been discussed. The consensus was, you have to drop the lower left gear cluster. But what about the needle bearings? Not to worry if you used grease to install them, they will stay. Well let me correct that statement. If you use the CORRECT grease they will stay. I dropped the cluster and installed the front shaft. turned the housing over so the cluster would get back in place and tried to install the shaft. Well, I wound up with exactly 42 needle bearing after finally digging them all out because they didn't stay in place. Time to go home at that point and really think about this. Disassembling again was disheartening at the least.

I decided to try and get the needle bearing back in place without doing a disassemble. Pull the ring that goes in place towards the front on the front bearings and towards the rear on the rear bearings and put them in place through the shaft hole. A long shot at best was my thinking but better that a disassemble. Talked to Patrick and Mark, Patrick saying use red grease (tackier than what I was using) and Mark suggesting petroleum jelly. I had petroleum jelly on hand and decided to use it. Surprisingly, this was easier to do than I had anticipated. The petroleum jelly worked wonderfully to hold the bearings and it was fairly easy to install the bearing through the rod opening. If you have large fingers, forget it!! I got the shaft back through the cluster and was VERY relieved I was able to accomplish that task without the threaded disassemble.

I'm not finished yet. I replaced the front seal and plate without issue. I removed the rear seal and bearing with no issues either. The rear bearing was a task. Hard to get in. I actually had to file the rear of the bearing with a rat tail file because it was a bit pressed. I don't think it will be an issue. I had to order the speedometer gear that goes on the rear shaft as I found this one was not what I would consider optimal. I'll post again when it's completed. Hopefully you can see some of what I've been describing in some pictures I took.

As an end note, buy the specialty tools to do this job. The snap ring pliers, the magnet and such. If you don't, you'll soon wish you had. If you have a press, you can do this job completely. It's not what I would consider hard, but there are things to be learned...

I then went fishing.

Allen
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post #508 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 12:15 AM
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My first trans I (we really) must have taken it apart a bunch of times before it was right. That was for a friends car, and we were both broke teenagers with no experience at the time.

One trick I have done a couple of times to hold the needle bearing in place in the counter gear is to turn down an undersized and short (same length as counter gear) plastic shaft to fit inside the counter gear holding the bearings in place (still using grease) and pushing this shaft out with the real shaft during assembly. This way I didnít have to worry about the needle bearings falling out of place.
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post #509 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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My first trans I (we really) must have taken it apart a bunch of times before it was right. That was for a friends car, and we were both broke teenagers with no experience at the time.

One trick I have done a couple of times to hold the needle bearing in place in the counter gear is to turn down an undersized and short (same length as counter gear) plastic shaft to fit inside the counter gear holding the bearings in place (still using grease) and pushing this shaft out with the real shaft during assembly. This way I didnít have to worry about the needle bearings falling out of place.
Did you miss the bass picture? The one thing I was proud of?

Allen
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post #510 of 586 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Mocked up waiting on the speedometer gear. The VIN is 5F09K602833. This transmission came out of a 66 GT350 carry over car. 6S030 to be precise owned by cushman350.

Allen
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